#1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

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#1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:36 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/us/politics/planned-parenthood.html

Putting an end to killing babies. Because every innocent person, no matter how small, intelligent or where they are located, ought to be protected from another taking their life.

Real choice. Because women should have REAL choices of having a baby AND being able to work, get a degree, or what have you. Young women deserve protection from over-bearing parents who take them to immediately get an abortion, and women generally protected from non-committed and/or physically violent/psychologically damaging men who fear staying with the one woman, paying child support or responsibility.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby RickD » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:42 pm

I hope he sticks to his guns on this issue. If he fails at everything else he does, but abolishes legal killing of the unborn, his presidency will be a success, imo.

He'll go down in history with the likes of Lincoln who was credited with the abolition of slavery.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby DBowling » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:40 pm

In my opinion there is one ... and only one ... legitimate reason to have voted for Trump.
The Supreme Court

That's why my parents voted for Trump, and I understand their position.

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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby RickD » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:06 pm

DBowling wrote:In my opinion there is one ... and only one ... legitimate reason to have voted for Trump.
The Supreme Court

That's why my parents voted for Trump, and I understand their position.

I can think of at least one more reason to have voted for Trump.

You should be ashamed of yourself for rebelling against your parents, and voting for what's-his-name.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Philip » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:13 pm

The courts and right to life!

What do you think would happen if Trump is able to stack the court with votes that will make a pro-life majority, and a case rules abortion unconstitutional? I think the left would go into a civil war mentality of militant resistance.

Funny, when the same lefto-progressos get pregnant, they never refer to "my fetus." It's all, "I'm excited about the baby, etc." It's only a fetus when either someone they don't know is pregnant, or if they themselves are pursuing an abortion. Ultrasound has changed a lot of people's minds over this issue.

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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:22 pm

Philip wrote:The courts and right to life!

What do you think would happen if Trump is able to stack the court with votes that will make a pro-life majority, and a case rules abortion unconstitutional? I think the left would go into a civil war mentality of militant resistance.

Funny, when the same lefto-progressos get pregnant, they never refer to "my fetus." It's all, "I'm excited about the baby, etc." It's only a fetus when either someone they don't know is pregnant, or if they themselves are pursuing an abortion. Ultrasound has changed a lot of people's minds over this issue.

Rather than rule abortion unconstitutional, I'd much rather ALL human life be correctly defined and recognised in law. For example, making something like Article 3 - Universal Declaration of Human Rights recognisable in law which says:

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
And Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights:

    Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.
Specifically in relation to the Rights of the Child says:

    1. States Parties recognize that every child has the inherent right to life.
    2. States Parties shall ensure to the maximum extent possible the survival and development of the child.
Then clearly defining "human life" and "child". The science and logic is on the side of those against abortion at any stage of human development, pre-birth or post-birth.

With such was defined, then the root issue is being dealt with (importance of a human child's life), rather than targeting a symptom (e.g., abortion). From that foundation, everything else can be corrected and brought into line. A pregnant woman murdered or killed from an intoxicated driver, the transgressor should then be charged with taking the lives of two persons rather than one. Abortions should not be rendered because such takes the life of a child whose life needs to be looked after to the maximum extent possible to ensure their survival and continued development, etc.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:46 pm

DBowling wrote:In my opinion there is one ... and only one ... legitimate reason to have voted for Trump.
The Supreme Court

That's why my parents voted for Trump, and I understand their position.

How awkward for an Egg McMuffin. I hope you were able to forgive them. :P
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby DBowling » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:25 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
DBowling wrote:In my opinion there is one ... and only one ... legitimate reason to have voted for Trump.
The Supreme Court

That's why my parents voted for Trump, and I understand their position.

How awkward for an Egg McMuffin. I hope you were able to forgive them. :P

Hey it really isn't that difficult a choice...

If God can forgive Rick for voting for Trump
Then I better be willing to extend the same grace to my parents... who btw have extended all kinds of grace to me over the years. :)

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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby edwardmurphy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:43 am

Kurieuo wrote:Real choice. Because women should have REAL choices of having a baby AND being able to work, get a degree, or what have you.

Holy crap, K is a progressive!


Kurieuo wrote:Young women deserve protection from over-bearing parents who take them to immediately get an abortion, and women generally protected from non-committed and/or physically violent/psychologically damaging men who fear staying with the one woman, paying child support or responsibility.


Sure they do, but they also deserve protection from uninvolved strangers looking to strip them of their reproductive rights.

I'll use my family as an example. My wife and I are both over 40. We have 2 girls, ages 3 1/2 and 18 months. We have a home we can afford, it's almost big enough, and we have enough equity to be able to weather getting screwed over by deregulated scumbag bankers and Wall Street thieves. We've got a decent shot at being able to retire some day while still being able to help the kids with college and maybe even leave them a couple of bucks when we check out. Life is pretty good, and we're more secure than many, if not most.

That said, our last pregnancy was very challenging. We spent a lot of time with high-risk doctors and we're eventually compelled to have labor induced early.

If my wife were to get pregnant again we'd have a very difficult decision. As we get older the risk of complications, birth defects, and genetic disorders rises rapidly. Having a third child, and especially one with special needs, would put a lot of financial pressure on our family. It would severely limited our ability to help our girls with college, much less retire, and it would jeopardize the security that we've worked hard to earn.

Does that mean we would automatically terminate an unexpected pregnancy? Not necessarily, but maybe. It would be a tough decision. It would also be an extremely personal decision. It damned sure wouldn't be any of our neighbors' or the government's business, and we wouldn't want it to be influenced by a bunch of strangers' worship of an imaginary deity.

Long story short, K, it's a question of personal freedom and government overreach. We mind our own business and we expect others to do the same.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:16 am

There are so many methods available to PREVENT pregnancy that abortion is, quite honestly, obsolete.

We have to be careful as to where we draw the line when personal freedom trumps killing.

If life is precious and to be preserved at all cost except when another life is on the line, then that is what it must be.

If life is precious only under certain circumstances then we need to be clear as to what those are and WHO gets to decide what they are.

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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby edwardmurphy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:55 am

No method of birth control is foolproof. My sister just adopted her 4th kid because the mother of the first kid she adopted got pregnant despite being on an IUD that was advertised as 99.9% effective. It happens. Also, if the stupid people succeed in killing Planned Parenthood a lot of women will have a hard time accessing any of those many methods of birth control.

I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be careful - they should - but [poop] happens and it's still not the government's business.

It also comes down to what you consider life. A fertilized egg has the potential to become life, but that doesn't mean that it is and by the time a fetus approached viability it's generally illegal to get an abortion.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:23 am

There ARE 100% foolproof methods.
If you don't ever want to have kids, you don't have to.

And pregnancy starts at conception otherwise you wouldn't be pregnant, would you?

And IF government has to get involved at ANY point in dealing with a child then, yes, it is the government's place.
To what DEGREE, that is another matter of course and needs to be addressed.

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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby RickD » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:28 pm

ed wrote:
Sure they do, but they also deserve protection from uninvolved strangers looking to strip them of their reproductive rights.

Ed,

Please tell me you aren't saying abortion is a reproductive right.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:55 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Real choice. Because women should have REAL choices of having a baby AND being able to work, get a degree, or what have you.

Holy crap, K is a progressive!


Kurieuo wrote:Young women deserve protection from over-bearing parents who take them to immediately get an abortion, and women generally protected from non-committed and/or physically violent/psychologically damaging men who fear staying with the one woman, paying child support or responsibility.


Sure they do, but they also deserve protection from uninvolved strangers looking to strip them of their reproductive rights.

I'll use my family as an example. My wife and I are both over 40. We have 2 girls, ages 3 1/2 and 18 months. We have a home we can afford, it's almost big enough, and we have enough equity to be able to weather getting screwed over by deregulated scumbag bankers and Wall Street thieves. We've got a decent shot at being able to retire some day while still being able to help the kids with college and maybe even leave them a couple of bucks when we check out. Life is pretty good, and we're more secure than many, if not most.

That said, our last pregnancy was very challenging. We spent a lot of time with high-risk doctors and we're eventually compelled to have labor induced early.

If my wife were to get pregnant again we'd have a very difficult decision. As we get older the risk of complications, birth defects, and genetic disorders rises rapidly. Having a third child, and especially one with special needs, would put a lot of financial pressure on our family. It would severely limited our ability to help our girls with college, much less retire, and it would jeopardize the security that we've worked hard to earn.

Does that mean we would automatically terminate an unexpected pregnancy? Not necessarily, but maybe. It would be a tough decision. It would also be an extremely personal decision. It damned sure wouldn't be any of our neighbors' or the government's business, and we wouldn't want it to be influenced by a bunch of strangers' worship of an imaginary deity.

Long story short, K, it's a question of personal freedom and government overreach. We mind our own business and we expect others to do the same.

If it is alright to terminate the life of a child inside the womb on the grounds you provided, then it should be alright to terminate a newborn baby on those same grounds. I'm sure you see the latter as murder, that should give you insight into how I see the former.

Trust me, you'd make do just fine. Based upon many stories I've read, studies and the like, I'm doubtful you'd end up regretting an additional child. BUT, there is a much higher chance you/your wife being normal everyday people with a conscience would regret terminating your baby in utero. Worst-case, let your child live and while not ideal, go with adoption as an alternative which also carries much less psychological risk to your wife.
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Re: #1 Issue to Have Voted Trump-Pence In On

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:03 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:No method of birth control is foolproof. My sister just adopted her 4th kid because the mother of the first kid she adopted got pregnant despite being on an IUD that was advertised as 99.9% effective. It happens. Also, if the stupid people succeed in killing Planned Parenthood a lot of women will have a hard time accessing any of those many methods of birth control.

I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be careful - they should - but [poop] happens and it's still not the government's business.

It also comes down to what you consider life. A fertilized egg has the potential to become life, but that doesn't mean that it is and by the time a fetus approached viability it's generally illegal to get an abortion.

Look up in any half-decent biology text book when human life begins.
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