Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:The question we should be asking, is if Obama knew about it. I can't ever see any evidence that Obama ordered it.

RickD wrote:The question we should be asking, is if Obama knew about it. I can't ever see any evidence that Obama ordered it.

edwardmurphy wrote:Hang on there. We have two pieces of information.

1) There's no evidence that Obama wire tapped Trump.

2) The CIA has the ability to do all kinds of sneaky cyber warfare stuff. (Not sure why that's being treated as a revelation.)

You (and Abe and Infowars) seem to be saying that #1 is irrelevant because of #2 so it logically follows that Trump needs no proof and Obama did it.

That's tin foil hat territory, K.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:The question we should be asking, is if Obama knew about it. I can't ever see any evidence that Obama ordered it.

I think Obama is going to try to hang Lorretta Lynch out to dry and let her take the blame.Nixon did not know about it nor did he order anything and yet he resigned because it happened when he was the President.

ultimate777 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:The question we should be asking, is if Obama knew about it. I can't ever see any evidence that Obama ordered it.

I think Obama is going to try to hang Lorretta Lynch out to dry and let her take the blame.Nixon did not know about it nor did he order anything and yet he resigned because it happened when he was the President.

They can't impeach Obama, whatever he did or should do.

edwardmurphy wrote:Can we back up a bit here?

Last I checked the speculation on whether or not Obama ordered the wire tap was premature, since there's no proof that Trump Tower was ever even wire tapped. You have to prove that a thing happened before you can decide who to blame for that thing.

DBowling wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:Can we back up a bit here?

Last I checked the speculation on whether or not Obama ordered the wire tap was premature, since there's no proof that Trump Tower was ever even wire tapped. You have to prove that a thing happened before you can decide who to blame for that thing.

Thank You for pointing out that small overlooked detail!

edwardmurphy wrote:Can we back up a bit here?

Last I checked the speculation on whether or not Obama ordered the wire tap was premature, since there's no proof that Trump Tower was ever even wire tapped. You have to prove that a thing happened before you can decide who to blame for that thing.

The only wire tapping scandal that currently exists is the one where Sideshow Don falsely claimed that it happened.

RickD wrote:

DBowling wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:Can we back up a bit here?

Last I checked the speculation on whether or not Obama ordered the wire tap was premature, since there's no proof that Trump Tower was ever even wire tapped. You have to prove that a thing happened before you can decide who to blame for that thing.

Thank You for pointing out that small overlooked detail!

The New York Times says otherwise. At least that Trump's communications were looked at.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/u ... amp_js_v=7

Attorney General Loretta Lynch and a parting shot at personal freedom
By Judge Andrew P. Napolitano Published January 19, 2017

On Jan. 3, outgoing Attorney General Loretta Lynch secretly signed an order directing the National Security Agency -- America’s 60,000-person-strong domestic spying apparatus -- to make available raw spying data to all other federal intelligence agencies, which then can pass it on to their counterparts in foreign countries and in the 50 states upon request. She did so, she claimed, for administrative convenience. Yet in doing this, she violated basic constitutional principles that were erected centuries ago to prevent just what she did.

Here is the back story.

In the aftermath of former President Richard Nixon’s abusive utilization of the FBI and CIA to spy on his domestic political opponents in the 1960s and '70s -- and after Nixon had resigned from office in the wake of all that -- Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which created a secret court that was charged with being the sole authority in America that can authorize domestic spying for non-law enforcement purposes.

The standard for a FISA court authorization was that the subject of the spying needed to be a foreign person in the United States who was an agent of a foreign power. It could be a foreign janitor in a foreign embassy, a foreign spy masquerading as a diplomat, even a foreign journalist working for a media outlet owned by a foreign government.

The American spies needed a search warrant from the FISA court. Contrary to the Constitution, the search warrant was given based not on probable cause of crime but rather on probable cause of the status of the person as an agent of a foreign power. This slight change from “probable cause of crime” to “probable cause of foreign agency” began the slippery slope that brought us to Lynch’s terrible order of Jan. 3.

Now, because of the Lynch secret order, revealed by The New York Times late last week, the NSA may share any of its data with any other intelligence agency or law enforcement agency that has an intelligence arm based on -- you guessed it -- the non-standard of governmental need.

So President Barack Obama, in the death throes of his time in the White House, has delivered perhaps his harshest blow to constitutional freedom by permitting his attorney general to circumvent the Fourth Amendment, thereby enabling people in law enforcement to get whatever they want about whomever they wish without a showing of probable cause of crime as the Fourth Amendment requires. That amendment expressly forbids the use of general warrants -- search where you wish and seize what you find -- and they had never been a lawful tool of law enforcement until Lynch's order.

Down the slope we have come, with the destruction of liberty in the name of safety by elected and appointed government officials. At a time when the constitutionally recognized right to privacy was in its infancy, Justice Louis Brandeis warned all who love freedom about its slow demise. He wrote: “Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.”

Someday we will learn why Obama did this. I hope that when we do, it is at a time when we still have personal liberty in a free society.

Quoted from: Attorney General Loretta Lynch and a parting shot at personal freedom

RickD wrote:

DBowling wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:Can we back up a bit here?

Last I checked the speculation on whether or not Obama ordered the wire tap was premature, since there's no proof that Trump Tower was ever even wire tapped. You have to prove that a thing happened before you can decide who to blame for that thing.

Thank You for pointing out that small overlooked detail!

The New York Times says otherwise. At least that Trump's communications were looked at.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/u ... amp_js_v=7