Evidence for God from Science

Christian University in Texas opens prayer room for Muslim students

Does not end here...

Christian university to send students to mosque for ‘religious experience’

Iowa...

Meditation rooms or makeshift mosque? U. of Iowa prayer spaces draw scrutiny, criticism


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So presumably you object to a college having a place where Muslim students can pray. Why is that? They're students there. They presumably pay their tuition. They went through the proper channels to get the room. What's the problem?

I wish we could get an actual muslim on here to talk about Islam. But I guess ed will have to do. Name brand versus off brand, as they say.

edwardmurphy wrote:So presumably you object to a college having a place where Muslim students can pray. Why is that? They're students there. They presumably pay their tuition. They went through the proper channels to get the room. What's the problem?

There is nothing wrong with groups being for their own group. I don't object to a college where Muslim students can pray, but I think it odd that a Christian college would cater to Muslim students let alone forcing Christian students to participate in some way, disavow their Christianity to analyse reactions of family and friends.

If they (Muslims) don't like not being catered to at a Christian school, then there are many public schools they can try to change or perhaps find a Muslim school. I equally wouldn't expect a Muslim school to cater to Christians, and if Christian students aren't happy then they can change schools.

Hortator wrote:I wish we could get an actual muslim on here to talk about Islam. But I guess ed will have to do. Name brand versus off brand, as they say.

I don't talk about Islam, I talk about history, politics, economics, and foreign policy. I don't care about Islam.

Kurieuo wrote:There is nothing wrong with groups being for their own group. I don't object to a college where Muslim students can pray, but I think it odd that a Christian college would cater to Muslim students let alone forcing Christian students to participate in some way, disavow their Christianity to analyse reactions of family and friends.

Cater? So it's cool for the college to admit them and take their money, but if they want to pray as a group they should have to meet somewhere off-campus? That would be incredibly obnoxious, and I'm glad that the Christian leadership of those colleges realizes that, even if others don't.

Also, observing a Muslim service isn't forced participation, and pretending to disavow Christianity was an optional, hilarious, extra credit assignment. You're changing the facts to justify getting offended.

Kurieuo wrote:If they (Muslims) don't like not being catered to at a Christian school, then there are many public schools they can try to change or perhaps find a Muslim school. I equally wouldn't expect a Muslim school to cater to Christians, and if Christian students aren't happy then they can change schools.

So if they want a place on campus to pray then they should go to another college? Again, as an American I'm proud that the leaders at these colleges had the courage and decency to do the right thing, and I'm also ashamed that these days it takes courage to be decent.

Matter of decency, seems like stupidity would make it such a matter.

Yes, if a Muslim doesn't like the "Christianisation" that makes the college a "Christian" college, then they should go elsewhere. Should a pro-gay group accept Christians who think homosexuality is a sin as a matter of decency? Sounds ridiculous to me.

Special groups are just that. It is a form of tolerance to allow them their beliefs and practices. Is it not a Christian school? Would you expect a Christian church to have a place for Muslims too if they decided to attend? No, and what I read was being required of students was more than a special praying area for Muslim students at a Christian college.

“You can also invite your friends to join in this visit,” the syllabus states. “… If you do not attend the mosque, you will not be able to do the quiz and as you know, there is not make-up for quizzes.”

I agree with K but if you are going to go down the decency route... then what about the decency and respect for what the school stands for.

And what about the danger of the influence? How far must certain values bend to accommodate those of OPPOSING views. Do people realize that the Quran teaches that the most sacred belief of Christians is a lie? That there was no Resurrection. That Jesus wasn't God. This is why Jesus said He didn't come to unite, but divide - but divide according to WHAT? Between those of faith in the true God vs. those who would deny Him. If an entity wants to be an interfaith one, then they shouldn't pretend to be a Christian school. And this has not a thing to do with not loving those of other faiths.

Kurieuo wrote:Yes, if a Muslim doesn't like the "Christianisation" that makes the college a "Christian" college, then they should go elsewhere. Should a pro-gay group accept Christians who think homosexuality is a sin as a matter of decency? Sounds ridiculous to me.

What are you talking about? Nobody is complaining about "Christianization." There's no scandal here. Some Muslim students - tuition-paying members of the college community - asked for a place on campus to pray. The school chaplain and a professor of religion helped them out and they got what they wanted. Where is the scandal? What part of that story is worthy of outrage?

According to the school's chaplain, “We anticipate over time we’ll have students from a variety of countries and possibly different religions. We need to learn to live and work together in this world that is increasingly diverse and then we can truly become better together.” So there you have it - McMurry University wants a diverse, international student body because that better reflects the world in which their graduates will live and work (and also, most likely, because international students are the only ones who pay full tuition).

The Christians running the college rejected your argument before you even made it.

Kurieuo wrote:Special groups are just that. It is a form of tolerance to allow them their beliefs and practices. Is it not a Christian school? Would you expect a Christian church to have a place for Muslims too if they decided to attend?

I don't have expectations for how either McMurry University or your hypothetical church should behave. I'll judge their behavior against my own values, but at the end of the day it's up to them. It's not for me, or you, or the Global Conservative Christian Punditry Network and Outrage Generation Machine to decide.

Kurieuo wrote:No, and what I read was being required of students was more than a special praying area for Muslim students at a Christian college.

“You can also invite your friends to join in this visit,” the syllabus states. “… If you do not attend the mosque, you will not be able to do the quiz and as you know, there is not make-up for quizzes.”

Well then, I'm puzzled that you said this:

I think it odd that a Christian college would cater to Muslim students let alone forcing Christian students to participate in some way, disavow their Christianity to analyse reactions of family and friends.

Anyway, I see no problem with requiring students in a comparative religion class to observe an Islamic service. That's called "education." If you choose not to do an assignment and it costs you a zero on a quiz that's your problem. If you want credit then do your work. If you're the kind of person who doesn't like to hear about Islam then why would you take a comparative religion elective taught by a Muslim?

Philip wrote:And what about the danger of the influence? How far must certain values bend to accommodate those of OPPOSING views. Do people realize that the Quran teaches that the most sacred belief of Christians is a lie? That there was no Resurrection. That Jesus wasn't God. This is why Jesus said He didn't come to unite, but divide - but divide according to WHAT? Between those of faith in the true God vs. those who would deny Him.

What danger? Are you afraid that Jesus would lose the Pepsi Challenge to Muhammad? What is it with conservatives being afraid of exposure to new and/or different ideas? Are your faith and your world view really that fragile?

Philip wrote:If an entity wants to be an interfaith one, then they shouldn't pretend to be a Christian school. And this has not a thing to do with not loving those of other faiths.

I'm not sure what makes precisely makes McMurry University or TCU "Christian Colleges" per se, but whatever it is it's probably robust enough to survive giving Muslims a room to pray or including a visit to a mosque in an elective world religions class. Perhaps you should contact them and ask for an explanation.

I think you're ignoring the part about telling Mum and Dad you're now a Muslim. Any kind of denial of Christ, in my opinion, is off limits and would be literally be blasphemy. A Christian college encouraging such? If you can't see an agenda, think it a "your values" thing so-be-it, as though your "decency" standard means anything to me, you really don't have any high moral ground here -- just your ground. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't give two $h!ts about Christ like yourself to really understand, so why bother responding to something that is clearly a Christian issue?

K: ... why bother responding to something that is clearly a Christian issue?

That's it - Christians are not to take their marching orders from belief systems in conflict with Scripture. The issue is, is this to be a Christian-values run school or not. If they are taking taxpayer monies, then they cannot be exclusive - can't have it both ways. But if they are a private entity, they should have every right to say that while unbelievers of other beliefs are welcome, they nonetheless will not be allowed to practice what the Bible considers a false religion in our midst. A Christian entity has to decide whether what it truly wants to be. You simply can't have it both ways. And, for example, I would not expect a Judaism or Muslim-based school to accept my desire to start a Bible society in their midst. I would respect that they see that as false beliefs and influence, and that they have every right to deny me what I'd like to start. There's plenty of ability for there to be multiple entities that function via their own private rules. But once one accepts public funding, they have essentially surrendered their autonomy on what they will or won't allow.

It seems to me the real point edward is trying to make is that its only fair that paying muslims get their room. Fairness and equality. But is Christianity fair in the worldly sense? No.

It ultimately excludes.

And I totally agree with Phillip that they have every right to do what they want.

Ness: But is Christianity fair in the worldly sense? No.

It ultimately excludes.

Well, ALL are welcome, and yet, yes, the way into God's family IS exclusive - there's but one way to join the club: Faith in Jesus!

Sorry Ness, I think you have it backwards. An inclusive faith is being coerced to include a famously exclusive and atrocious political and spiritual philosophy.

Just a general rule of thumb, any talk of fairness, equality, feel-good buzzwords are nullified when talking about Islam. No matter what cloak they are wearing today.

I really dont think I have it backwards....

Yes, Christianity ultimately excludes simply because although all are welcome... Its under certain conditions. That being the only way to the father is through Jesus, his son. And if you love Jesus, you will obey him. Though we all fail and salvation is through Christ alone.