Bodies of three kidnapped Israeli teens found in West Bank

[Gman]

I don't have time to dig up old threads but I don't have to, I have seen such instances in threads myself. And even in this thread you said we are all antisemtic when we oppose God's people. Antisemtism is not that FYI. Antisemtism is when someone hates Jews because of a racial difference. Not because they disagree with them.

Actually antisemitism has it's roots in the prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group. So it crosses many lines on many levels. Think of it this way.. Say someone were to say that Mexico or America or Canada wasn't a country anymore and that we have to give it back to the Indians. How to do think you would feel or if that happened to your own country or that you were wiped out for it?

I like Wikipedia's description of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

As for your link, I am ok if this is somewhere else, like in another universe.

from your link

The characteristics of the new creation tell us that it will be vastly different from what we are used to on earth. Probably most noticeable difference will be the lack of gravity. The New Jerusalem is described as a 1,500 mile cube. Structures of this size would automatically become a sphere in this universe, because of gravity.

This is simply not true. Plus notice the contradiction, above there is no gravity and below Rich says that gravity is going to make Jerusalem a sphere.

No not at all.. The heavenly "New Jerusalem" does not replace the earth in any way although the earth will certainly be reshaped. According to the book of Revelation, outside the New Jerusalem, people will still be sinning in the flesh on earth.

Revelation 22:14-15 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

But let's say hypothetically you are right. We still have to deal with what we have today. Israel is Israel and G-d put it there for a reason..

[Gman]

Neo is right Gman. You need to drop the knee jerk reaction with anti-Semitic charges. Calling Israel to question for some of her actions is not anti-Semitic. It is judging a group of humans by the laws and morals that God himself gave us. No one is above approach. No one. Please take off your Rose tinted glasses of that country. You can be patriotic about a nation by calling it out when it is wrong as well. There are many times I have been appalled about the actions of my country - still does not mean I do not love it and want it to flourish. Just be careful with the language you use on here. Forums are notoriously bad for misreading peoples intentions.

Silvertusk.

Apparently you aren't reading my posts either. I said "IF" you say that these boys died on the account of Israel actions, then yes, you are showing your true colors. I never said he was.. Furthermore as it turns out, I don't think he saying that now.. And another thing, I never made the accusation that Israel is perfect either or has it all together. But yes, I do and will stand for Israel when she needs it. I'm a very different Christian who wants to see the Jewish people exalted under Christ and it will happen with G-d's direction. Strangely I think the Christian communities are missing the boat on Israel. I think many would rather see it perish and have no use for it. As an example the Presbyterian church recently voted to boycott products from Israel and join the evil BDS movement. I'm directly opposed to Christians who believe such nonsense. So yes, there will be clashes especially around the topic of Israel. It's expected...

Also, I believe we ALL can take on antisemitic overtones even though it is not directly "antisemitic."

[B. W.]

Such sad loss of life. Had there been no strife, these precious people would still be alive...and you accused me of "showing my true colors",

Yes you are showing your true colors again if you say "if there had been no strife" from Israel. Again you have no grounds to make such an accusation..

Gman, I think you are reading more into neo's post than he intended. No strife is good. Period.

I third that! Gman Neo was not saying anything derogatory.

We all make such mistakes in misreading people on the forum. Please everyone let's admit our mistakes, forgive, and move or this thread will be locked.

Also, No one here discussing deserves a ban either...
-
-
-

[Gman]

I third that! Gman Neo was not saying anything derogatory.

We all make such mistakes in misreading people on the forum. Please everyone let's admit our mistakes, forgive, and move or this thread will be locked.

Also, No one here discussing deserves a ban either...
-
-
-

Don't look at me. Actually I'm very happy to see that Neo respects the Jewish people and the land of Israel as the Jewish state. We need more Zionists anyway... Seriously. Way to go.

[RickD]

I third that! Gman Neo was not saying anything derogatory.

We all make such mistakes in misreading people on the forum. Please everyone let's admit our mistakes, forgive, and move or this thread will be locked.

Also, No one here discussing deserves a ban either...
-
-
-

Don't look at me. Actually I'm very happy to see that Neo respects the Jewish people and the land of Israel as the Jewish state. We need more Zionists anyway... Seriously. Way to go.

Don't you mean Palestine?

[Seraph]

Just saying, not believing in the inherent superiority of a race does not make one discriminatory against that race. In fact, I think it is much more racist to accept the superiority of a race because it discriminates against all other races.

Point is, not believing that Jewish people are entitled to something and that they can do no wrong does not make one an antisemite. Neither neo or Silvertusk are antisemites, they haven't posted anything that even suggested that they might be.

I'm a Deist, but I think that if Israel was chosen by God, it was to bring forth the messiah. I think it's ludicrous to say that God presently supports certain races or nations over others, especially if it's not because of their actions, but because he simply chose to have a covenant with one. The bible highly suggests that God does not favor a person because they are either Jew or gentile.

[neo-x]

The bible highly suggests that God does not favor a person because they are either Jew or gentile.

well said seraph.

[Gman]

Just saying, not believing in the inherent superiority of a race does not make one discriminatory against that race. In fact, I think it is much more racist to accept the superiority of a race because it discriminates against all other races.

However G-d did choose the Jewish people as the vehicle for His salvation John 4:22.. Again I stated.. G-d has not repudiated His Jewish people Romans 11:1-2, and they are still His chosen people Romans 11:11. Why? Because G-d did not destroy His covenants He made with them Romans 11:28-29. Because they are more righteous? No, because they, like us, were never righteous. Because of the promises He made to them many years ago Genesis 17:7.

G-d is still with the Jewish people even in their unbelief of Christ. This is the mistake I believe most Christians make.

Again.. Look at the warning from Paul..

Romans 11:25-26 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

G-d it going to redeem all of Israel whether Jew or Gentile.. If you come against Israel then you are going against G-d's covenants.

[neo-x]

Oh don't be so dramatic. No one is against God here, or Israel. I don't think Israel gives a damn about what we think or that we even matter. You are not a defender. Stop acting like one and get down from the highhorse and drop the holier than thou attitude.

You are no one to judge who is violating God's covenants. You act like a Martyr, and trade Israel victim card. And then you copy paste verses and insult others.

No one is hurting your precious Israel. We are not enemies but you make a point of erasing that distinction with this attitude.

In this very thread i have repeated that you need not assume excessively. There is a big wide gray area between your black and white, in which you try to fit everyone. This isn't about for Israel or against Israel anymore and this is not a fence buster. The world doesn't revolves around one country.

So chil relax, praise Israel, worship her even as a god , I wouldn't mind, just don't patronize others or insult them. And we will have no issues. Because That is the only objection I have.

[Gman]

Oh don't be so dramatic. No one is against God here, or Israel. I don't think Israel gives a damn about what we think or that we even matter. You are not a defender. Stop acting like one and get down from the highhorse and drop the holier than thou attitude.

You are no one to judge who is violating God's covenants. You act like a Martyr, and trade Israel victim card. And then you copy paste verses and insult others.

No one is hurting your precious Israel. We are not enemies but you make a point of erasing that distinction with this attitude.

In this very thread i have repeated that you need not assume excessively. There is a big wide gray area between your black and white, in which you try to fit everyone. This isn't about for Israel or against Israel anymore and this is not a fence buster. The world doesn't revolves around one country.

So chil relax, praise Israel, worship her even as a god , I wouldn't mind, just don't patronize others or insult them. And we will have no issues. Because That is the only objection I have.

My precious Israel? So why are you insulting me now?

I'm going to correct Biblical mistakes when I see them... G-d has never rejected the Jewish people and it is apparent that there is still a lot confusion on the subject. So no, I'm not going to chill. I'm going to increase my stance because of this..

[neo-x]

I don't mean to insult. I kind of feel bad for you at times. i just think you are preaching to the choir. The only biblical mistake we all should be concerned about is to call each other enemies. All of your zealotary seems misguided. I wish it wasn't this way. You still have your black and white filter on you. So I am either with you or against you.

That is what I find sad about you.

[Gman]

I don't mean to insult. I kind of feel bad for you at times. i just think you are preaching to the choir. The only biblical mistake we all should be concerned about is to call each other enemies. All of your zealotary seems misguided. I wish it wasn't this way. You still have your black and white filter on you. So I am either with you or against you.

That is what I find sad about you.

Yes you did mean that as an insult. And I feel bad and sad for you as well if you deny the Jewish people the right to their land. It is anti-Biblical to say such things as I have shown through the scripture, and you cannot deny that. And frankly I could care less what you think about me.. My only hope for you is that you understand G-d's plan for national Israel. It's a very critical matter to understand G-d's redemption for the Israeli people. You don't want to be on the wrong side of this..

[neo-x]

I don't mean to insult. I kind of feel bad for you at times. i just think you are preaching to the choir. The only biblical mistake we all should be concerned about is to call each other enemies. All of your zealotary seems misguided. I wish it wasn't this way. You still have your black and white filter on you. So I am either with you or against you.

That is what I find sad about you.

Yes you did mean that as an insult. And I feel bad and sad for you as well if you deny the Jewish people the right to their land. It is anti-Biblical to say such things as I have shown through the scripture, and you cannot deny that. And frankly I could care less what you think about me.. My only hope for you is that you understand G-d's plan for national Israel. It's a very critical matter to understand G-d's redemption for the Israeli people. You don't want to be on the wrong side of this..

That is sad, you still mistake my words as bitter, where as, as hard as you have made it, I still think you are a brother and I had hoped you will understand that there is no enmity here. But it seems, obviously you are not going to take my word for it. Anyway I don't lie. So when I say it wasn't an insult, I mean it.

Its also antibiblical to call your brothers antisemites.

If God has a plan for Israel, then he will know what to do but I am afraid your Israeli govt, might not. Israel needs to be redeemed, they need to the absolution of their sins as well, without christ, no one matters, no one reaches heaven, no one is better. Israel is not the yardstick of humanity.

People have been fighting for land since I don't know when, probably when we were in caves. Fight for your land, all you like, just don't make it a holy affair, its not. You think Israel is more precious than any other? God loved the world, it doesn't say God loved Israel above all others. That is the O.T a covenant you have still high hopes for. The New covenant is a different one. God is not of Hebrews alone anymore. Nor they are his exclusive chosen anymore.

God has a plan for them for redemption, but I doubt its the same one where Jesus commands them to invade all the Palestinians around just so they get their promised land back, a land not flowing with milk or honey anymore, but with blood.

In Christ all our equal and without Christ, all are equal too. There is no difference. All without Christ are in darkness. I want to see a Jew redeemed as much as the Palestinian and the Arab and some of those terrorists.

[Gman]

Its also antibiblical to call your brothers antisemites.

Again I have never called anyone here Antisemitic. I have asked you to show me where I have said such things and you have produced nothing..

If God has a plan for Israel, then he will know what to do but I am afraid your Israeli govt, might not. Israel needs to be redeemed, they need to the absolution of their sins as well, without christ, no one matters, no one reaches heaven, no one is better. Israel is not the yardstick of humanity.

Again I have show from scripture that G-d has a plan for Israel... It will come back from the ashes.

Acts 15:16-18 ‘After this I will return  and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, 17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’18 things known from long ago.

Isaiah 62:7 and give him no rest till he restores Jerusalem and makes it a praise on earth.

Isaiah 62:1 For Tziyon’s sake I will not be silent, for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest, until her vindication shines out brightly and her salvation like a blazing torch.

People have been fighting for land since I don't know when, probably when we were in caves. Fight for your land, all you like, just don't make it a holy affair, its not. You think Israel is more precious than any other? God loved the world, it doesn't say God loved Israel above all others. That is the O.T a covenant you have still high hopes for. The New covenant is a different one. God is not of Hebrews alone anymore. Nor they are his exclusive chosen anymore.

The Bible clearly states that Jerusalem and it's people will always be forever.

1 Chronicles 23:25 For David had said, “Since the LORD, the God of Israel, has granted rest to his people and has come to dwell in Jerusalem forever,”

Psalm 137:5-6 If I forget you, Jerusalem may my right hand wither away! 6 May my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth if I fail to remember you, if I fail to count Yerushalayim the greatest of all my joys.

Isaiah 49:14-16 “But Tziyon says, ‘ADONAI has abandoned me, Adonai has forgotten me.’ 15 Can a woman forget her child at the breast, not show pity on the child from her womb?
Even if these were to forget, I would not forget you. 16 I have engraved you on the palms of my hands, your walls are always before me.”

And Christ said very clearly..

Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

God has a plan for them for redemption, but I doubt its the same one where Jesus commands them to invade all the Palestinians around just so they get their promised land back, a land not flowing with milk or honey anymore, but with blood.

That is completely wrong. Jewish people have been living in the land if Israel for thousands of years. Even after their expulsion by the Romans in 70 AD. Also they are recognized by the UN as a legitimate country.

In Christ all our equal and without Christ, all are equal too. There is no difference. All without Christ are in darkness. I want to see a Jew redeemed as much as the Palestinian and the Arab and some of those terrorists.

I hope and pray that you understand that "through" Israel the Arabs will be redeemed. The Arabs will most certainly be blessed when they bless Israel. In fact Isaiah 19:19-25 even records such a time when this will happen with a highway from Egypt to Assyria through the land of Israel for worship.

Isaiah 19:19-25 In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the Lord at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the Lord Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the Lord because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. 21 So the Lord will make himself known to the Egyptians, and in that day they will acknowledge the Lord. They will worship with sacrifices and grain offerings; they will make vows to the Lord and keep them. 22 The Lord will strike Egypt with a plague; he will strike them and heal them. They will turn to the Lord, and he will respond to their pleas and heal them.

23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. 24 In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. 25 The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.

[neo-x]

I hope you realize that the people are saved through the gospel, not through people who don't even believe in the gospel.