Death

[Believer]

The Bible says the eyes are the window to the soul. The soul I discovered is actually mortal, the soul is you, the person. It dies with you when you die. So when you die and you have the spirit of Jesus within you, where does the spirit go at death? It says that Jesus will come and ressurrect both believers and non-believers to be judged. So does the spirit sleep as well until Jesus comes?

[BavarianWheels]

The Bible says the eyes are the window to the soul. The soul I discovered is actually mortal, the soul is you, the person. It dies with you when you die. So when you die and you have the spirit of Jesus within you, where does the spirit go at death? It says that Jesus will come and ressurrect both believers and non-believers to be judged. So does the spirit sleep as well until Jesus comes?

I would answer to the affirmative on this question...
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[Prodigal Son]

i thought we went to heaven immediately? i also think that the soul is immortal. our bodies are mortal.

[Kyle]

we'll just have to wait and see to make sure

[Believer]

i thought we went to heaven immediately? i also think that the soul is immortal. our bodies are mortal.

we'll just have to wait and see to make sure

Maybe, maybe not .

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

i thought we went to heaven immediately? i also think that the soul is immortal. our bodies are mortal.

we'll just have to wait and see to make sure

Maybe, maybe not .

When you are outside of time after you die, you instantly go to heaven-while in the land of time it still takes a few years till you're resurrected. No problems as I see it.

[Believer]

i thought we went to heaven immediately? i also think that the soul is immortal. our bodies are mortal.

we'll just have to wait and see to make sure

Maybe, maybe not .

When you are outside of time after you die, you instantly go to heaven-while in the land of time it still takes a few years till you're resurrected. No problems as I see it.

Is there any actual SCIENCE that backs up claims of an afterlife, besides the controversial Near Death Experiences?

[Kurieuo]

Interesting you should ask that as I just watched an interesting documentary last night about NDEs called 'The Day I Died' by Tom Wilkinson.

Within, it took a look at a woman (Pam Reynolds) who underwent surgery to have an aneurysm removed. To do this, the patient literally enters a state of being clinically dead (no heartbeat, no brain waves) for about an hour. After the aneurysm is removed, patients are then restored back to life. The remarkable thing about this is (besides her still having rights as a human person although she's not alive which brings a new insight into the abortion debate ), Pam saw her body and the operating tools they were using, she heard conversations, and at the times these things happened Pam's body was literally dead. If further interested, I was able to find an article on Pam at http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html.

What I also found interesting is how NDEs are actually moving many who I'd classify as materialists, to account for consciousness in new ways as something that exists in the same way matter itself does. For example, one scientist in documentary I believe was saying how certain ideas within quantum mechanics such as superpositioning (where two states exist at the one time) could perhaps account for how one could be consciously aware apart from their body. It seemed to me that he was essentially saying our consciousness lies on the the smallest physical level where quantum mechanics take place, so it could be that when our body dies that our conscious state leaks out of our body. Thus, we are able to be aware of things in a conscious state through quantum laws leaks outside our body. And then if we are brought back to life, our consciousness gets pulled back into body to its original state. There appears to be an interesting discussion I found at http://www.closertotruth.com/topics/min ... cript.html you might be interested in. Robert Penrose also has some good books I hear, which I am still eager to get and read.

Now I find it fascinating that some actually believe a new area in Science will be forthcoming that will be dedicated to examining consiousness as a substance in itself and apart from the brain. As I understand, just as matter can be converted into energy and vice-versa, some see consciousness in a similar light. I found it quite startling to see those who I believe to be materialists actually embracing the possibility of life after death.

Kurieuo.

[Prodigal Son]

too cool for words.

[Believer]

I have a few problems with http://www.near-death.com/. They go a little to far in the fantasy field. I also have some problems with Near Death Experiences. Technically, you are NEAR DEATH, not at death. I have found that even though the brain shuts down and even some other essential parts of the body to keep you alive, the brain is more in an idle mode. I don't think this is a good example but if someone is sleeping in a room with some people that are awake, and those people are talking, the sleeping persons brain is still picking up what they are saying, and can weave it into a dream like consciousness, same thing with Near Death Experiences. You can read scripture, think about it, make a visualization of it, and then continue reading and do that same process over. After a while, the collective memory will retain these thoughts and visualizations you have made up in your mind and stitch it together to make it look real.

People often see exactly what they read in scripture in the Bible because of the preceding process either in a dream or Near Death Experience. But then there are rebuttals against that because why in every scenario of a Near Death Experience, would you see either a heaven or a hell, why not something else? This applies to people who haven't even read scripture of any kind. So there is a for and an against for Near Death Experiences. It is a difficult field of study for validation or non-validation.

So anyways, the problems I have with http://www.near-death.com/, is that they don't have a belief in God since they agree with the skeptic (click here), but then in other articles on the same website, they do state a belief in Him. They also have problems with Jesus's resurrection (click here), which then links into the concept of resurrection which uses the Gnostic gospels and others. Other articles from the website that branch off to other articles talk about it in a biblical sense in some parts. There are one to many contradictions on the website. They flip flop like John Kerry . I mean, just look at the skeptical arguments section, the NDEs of people with different religions, reincarnation, and the past lives of Jesus Christ, all plainly seen on http://www.near-death.com/. I do believe they have truth on their website, however some of their arguments, articles, and whatever else, are clunky.

[Believer]

There appears to be an interesting discussion I found at http://www.closertotruth.com/topics/min ... cript.html you might be interested in.

Kurieuo, would you mind summarizing the discussion quoted above for the people that don't understand it that well? Kind of like me when I was reading it .

[jerickson314]

I wouldn't expect to see heaven or hell in a near death experience, after reading Hebrews 9:27.

[Believer]

I wouldn't expect to see heaven or hell in a near death experience, after reading Hebrews 9:27.

I concur, HOWEVER, judgment after death could mean what people claim in Near Death Experiences being that they are told to go back, kind of like a judgment, to pursue what God has told them to do. I don't know, the phenomena is very odd with NDEs. I mean, you can see what is going on from above while you eyes are shut and then when you are alive, you verify that what you saw was indeed real while the doctors also confirm it. I just don't know. Maybe that scripture was based for the people back then. I don't know how much scripture is directly aimed at people back when the books were written.

[Kurieuo]

I have a few problems with http://www.near-death.com/. They go a little to far in the fantasy field...
...So anyways, the problems I have with http://www.near-death.com/, is that they don't have a belief in God since they agree...

I don't agree with the beliefs of NDE nor would I believe all the NDE stories they have are as well confirmed. I was simply pointing to the one article I referenced on their website for those who wanted more information on Pam Reynold's NDE that I mentioned.

Kurieuo, would you mind summarizing the discussion quoted above for the people that don't understand it that well? Kind of like me when I was reading it

I referenced this page as within the quantum mechanics idea was touched upon, and I was attempting to summarise one idea involving QM in my previous post. If I have time (as I'm short of it atm) and I remember, I'll see if I can draw anything further out for you later.

Kurieuo.

[Believer]

Well, NDE research looks credible but on the flip-side it doesn't at the same time. It is very convincing, however:

I wouldn't expect to see heaven or hell in a near death experience, after reading Hebrews 9:27.

makes a good point. Straight from the Bible. Society has gotten WAY out of hand in my own idea.