DBowling wrote:B. W. wrote:The Books of Enoch, Jasher, and Jubilees are all quoted in the bible. They do not malign the bible. They support the bible. They honor YHWH as well. They were refereed too in the bible and quoted.
In your opinion are the intertestamental pseudepigrapha that you mention above equivalent to the OT and NT canon in accuracy and authority?
I think it's safe to assume that you do not.
If not, then what is the basis for your assumption that these intertestamental traditions accurately reflect historical events that occurred over 2,000 years before these traditions were created?
Are you confident that the three pseudepigraphal documents you mention above have no contradictions with canonical Scripture?
Please EVERYONE PLEASE GET IT THRU YOUR HEADS - NO - THESES ARE NOT NOT NOT THE SAME AS CANNON.
Historical context, learning to look at what the 2 Temple era people knew and believed in is important in proper bible interpretation. If we stick to the idea that all things out side of cannon are evil then, what about our own history?
History should be outlawed. Math should be outlawed, as well as philosophy because none of it is cannon of the bible - so is that what many folks here seem to be saying? Is it?
I do not think so...
Between 3rd century AD to late Middles ages is when the Sethite view and leader view came in vogue. We are being asked to disregard what the folks knew about as common knowledge concerning Genesis 6:1-4 that transcends different cultures and areas on the entire globe of that era.
In a crime scene, you have witnesses. Each witness will tell of what they see in their own view points and vantage point. If witnesses sympathize with the criminal who committed the crime, their testimony will reflect that. Look at the Michael Brown case and Black Lives Matter organization for that matter.
One the other hand, if one is neutral - they will report what they see in an unbiased manner.
The role of police investigation is to compile the testimonies and sort them out. When it comes to the crime of the fallen angels. We are told to toss out all evidence because it is not cannon of scripture.
How many know that the book of Daniel uses imagery of the ancient pagan false deities of Babylon and so did John in the book of Revelation?
Why do the Prophets of the bible and bible name some of these by name?
Isa 46:1, Bel bows down, Nebo stoops; Their idols were on the beasts and on the cattle. Your carriages were heavily loaded, A burden to the weary beast." NKJV
Jer 50:2, "Declare among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim—do not conceal it— Say, 'Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed. Merodach is broken in pieces; Her idols are humiliated, Her images are broken in pieces.'" NKJV
Jer 51:44, "I will punish Bel in Babylon, And I will bring out of his mouth what he has swallowed; And the nations shall not stream to him anymore. Yes, the wall of Babylon shall fall." NKJV
....and a host of others too...
We are told to shut up, do not investigate the crime scene - nothing to see here. Well, understanding bible end time prophecy is greatly hindered by such attitudes and that is tragic.
Before the Cannon of Scripture what did the 2 Temple era Jews read? Anyone dare know the answer? That had the Torah beginning at the time of Moses. However - what was before? What did Moses know? Why was Enoch Taken? Who was Able what did Able know? Jarred know?
What did the pre-flood folks know about God? How did they stray? Who motivated them to fall into various sins and how were the false gods system created? Where did the dark arts come from?
Who taught that to humanity? What was the cutting of roots, doing drugs to commune with spirits - who taught that to humanity?
Who taught them to work metal and do warfare? Who taught them to conjure using spells and rituals? Who taught humanity to paint themselves and doll themselves up with make-up and ideas of self-glory? Do you know?
That is the crime scene and yet, we are sold this bill of goods that only the codified cannon of scripture way back in the 300-400 AD times frames is the only evidence we have and any modern ones that come after that are correct.
Do you reading this really think God incapable of speaking before the councils of Nicene, etc, anything at all without needing their approval first? Can you look at the evidence even if not part of the cannon - the records we still have and connect the dots as intelligent people?
Eccl 3:15 says: "That which is has already been, and what is to be has already been; And God requires an account of what is past" NKJV.
Isaiah 42:9 says this:"Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them." NKJV
God spoke in times past. Some of it is actually recorded. Those folks in that ancient era read these accounts that God left them thru contemporaries of their time. God sent these to them to set the record straight. These ancient folks of God had to deal with the demonic world of pagan false gods. They understood the war against god's people. They understood... it is we who do not.
They left witness of what they believed and understood so as to go against the pagan world view that these beings were nice entities sent to improve humanity. The pagan worldview was that their deities came to set humans free and improve their lives as long as they performed for them this and that thing.
The story line was that sought to slay the enemy (God) and a Slayer, Nergal (Azazel), who was imprisoned in Hell as a scapegoat fro the angelic rebellion, who would send his son Nebo to earth to finish the task at the end of days to improve humanity by killing off all of God's people.
Did you know that story line? Do you think knowing such things is important to understanding the book of Daniel and Revelation?
Did you know the Importance of Caesarea Philippi in Matthew 16? Did you not know there was a place near there called the Gates of Hell?
Did you not know that the Mountain Jesus was transfigured on was not Mt Tabor because that mountain had a Roman Garrison and small village on its top (and its summit is not very big either) and the time line to travel between places and the bible clearly says they were alone on the high mountain?
The Mountain closest to Caesarea Philippi is mount Hermon as it was located at the base of its range. The Grotto of Pan was also called the gates of Hell. The area around the sea of Galilee, and Samaria was where kings Og and Sihon ruled. Did you not know that area was once known as the land where the giants lived?
These things would have been known to the 2 temple era Jews and Jesus' disciples. They are not known to us because we discard all the witnesses accounts and evidence.
Can the readers try to understand what Jesus was doing by taking the fight to the enemy, by calming the storm on the sea (Baal) casting out Legion - sending out 70 - healing oppressed and sick in that region and and then literally stand at the gates of Hell to declare the defeat of the demonic is profound!
And, then go to the top of Mount Hermon and transfigured, where according to the ancient records was where the deed of the fallen angels occurred, sends a strong message: The Earth is the Lord's and all the fullness thereof it.... The King is come to take back the Kingdom as humanity's kinsman redeemer...
That is missed. The richness of the bible is missed when one discounts the evidence...of the crime scene... and what was going on. So is it any wonder the modern church world is a mess as so many are simply concerned with the needs of man and not Jesus' assignment to the church. So very sad... look at your countries your towns, enemy winning?
People have a right to discard the evidence but what they miss, well, will not be known by them. Very sad.
So, we have a crime scene - Gen 6:1-4. We have testimony of the criminals and their supporters and we have the testimony of God and His people still on record way back then. The testimony of the devious criminal element would love the church world to dismiss the evidence and cloud that line of thinking with human leaders and Sethite views - is it any wonder?
Wake up people of God - the enemy has been at the churches gates too long!
Jesus desires us to be at the enemy’s gates and not at each-others throats...concerned only with the ways of men as more important than pushing back darkness to its defensive gates in our towns, cities, homes, families, lives, country....
Jesus rebuke Peter - and - the church world needs that rebuke today.