Hell;...is it literally fire or a eternal holding place

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voicingmaster
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#31

Post by voicingmaster » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:39 pm

So, God is going to burn people alive for all eternity? Odd, considering in Jeremiah 7:31 He states that the thought of burning people alive never entered His heart. The references to hellfire come from the Greek word Gehenna, which was an incinerator used a trashpile in Jerusalem. The trashpiles were kept burning with sulfur and brimstone to ensure that things thrown in were completly annihilated. Sometimes bodies were thrown in. WHich is why, when Jesus refers to those, He is referring to the annihilation of the soul.

I believe that the lake of fire is figurative, referring to the destruction of the wicked. There is much figurative language used in Revelation.

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#32

Post by Deborah » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:26 pm

the unrightious will be seperated from god and hope for the eternity.
Question is can we exist without the creator being part of us. We are created in his image, he is part of us. In eternity if we are seperated from god maybe we will just simply stop existing at all.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#33

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:25 am

Question is can we exist without the creator being part of us. We are created in his image, he is part of us. In eternity if we are seperated from god maybe we will just simply stop existing at all.
Deborah, your statement was cosmic and pantheistic.

God is not a part of His creation. God is only in us as the Holy Spirit once we are Christians.
So, God is going to burn people alive for all eternity? Odd, considering in Jeremiah 7:31 He states that the thought of burning people alive never entered His heart.
Don't twist the Scriptures. That verse is referring to an instance where people were building fires to burn people, and God says He didn't command it and the idea never crossed His mind. It is not referring to Hell or anything else-just that specific point in time.
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#34

Post by Deborah » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:56 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
Question is can we exist without the creator being part of us. We are created in his image, he is part of us. In eternity if we are seperated from god maybe we will just simply stop existing at all.
Deborah, your statement was cosmic and pantheistic.

God is not a part of His creation. God is only in us as the Holy Spirit once we are Christians.
So, God is going to burn people alive for all eternity? Odd, considering in Jeremiah 7:31 He states that the thought of burning people alive never entered His heart.
Don't twist the Scriptures. That verse is referring to an instance where people were building fires to burn people, and God says He didn't command it and the idea never crossed His mind. It is not referring to Hell or anything else-just that specific point in time.
You misunderstood my statement, I am refering to our spirits/souls that are created in his image. As saying god is part of us meant that this is the part of us that is most like god. it does not say we are god.
As for god only being in us once we are christians.
As parents we say our children are part of us, they are a most precious part of us. In the same way as we are part of God our creator. We are all obviously precious to god, he does not want a single one of us lost. this does not just refer to christians because he wants all to come to him on their own. This is how I mean that he is part of us and we are part of him even before we are christians.

maybe my words are a bit iffy but it's hard to place the correct meaning to what I am saying.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#35

Post by voicingmaster » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:30 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
So, God is going to burn people alive for all eternity? Odd, considering in Jeremiah 7:31 He states that the thought of burning people alive never entered His heart.
Don't twist the Scriptures. That verse is referring to an instance where people were building fires to burn people, and God says He didn't command it and the idea never crossed His mind. It is not referring to Hell or anything else-just that specific point in time.
If God is unchanging, then if He was against burning people alive at one point, wouldn't He be against burning people anytime? Also, the Bible says God is love. Does giving people immortality, then torturing them for eternity sound loving to you? Also, what of John 3:16 that states that those who don't accept Christ as saviour will die? If eternal torment is true, shouldn't John 3:16 read "For God so loved the world so much, in that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever shall believe shall not burn forever, but shall live in peice"? But no, it says "........whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life". Also, several other place in the Bible say that the wicked soul will die, as opposed to being tortured forever. Nowhere does it state that you will be given an immortal body and tortured forever, nor does it state that you will be absent from God. The Bible states clearly that the righteous will live forever, and the wicked will die again.

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#36

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:39 pm

God's NATURE does not change, get it straight...Also, God doesn't torture, hell is a place of torment. Life apart from God is death, so hell is a place of spiritual death.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous

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#37

Post by voicingmaster » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:16 pm

Sending people to a place of torment is just the same as torturing them.

And why would God keep someone alive totally disconnected to Him, when He can just destroy them?

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#38

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:50 pm

Sending people to a place of torment is just the same as torturing them.
Torture
Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
Something causing severe pain or anguish.
Torment
Great physical pain or mental anguish.
A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain.
The torture inflicted on prisoners under interrogation.

Seems to be a difference in degree...but, can someone with knowledge of the words used in the Bible please stand up and help? Don't know where to find that.
And why would God keep someone alive totally disconnected to Him, when He can just destroy them?
Spirit is eternal, it cannot be killed or destroyed or such....you can kill the body, but the soul lives on....those destined for hell, though, then experience a second (spiritual) death, and are separated from God, because separation from God is death.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous

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#39

Post by voicingmaster » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:50 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
Sending people to a place of torment is just the same as torturing them.
Torture
Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
Something causing severe pain or anguish.
Torment
Great physical pain or mental anguish.
A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain.
The torture inflicted on prisoners under interrogation.

Seems to be a difference in degree...but, can someone with knowledge of the words used in the Bible please stand up and help? Don't know where to find that.
Still, does making someone immortal, then sending them to a place where they will be placed in fire forever sound very loving to you?
And why would God keep someone alive totally disconnected to Him, when He can just destroy them?
Spirit is eternal, it cannot be killed or destroyed or such....you can kill the body, but the soul lives on.
Odd, where'd you get that conclusion? The Bible states that the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4, 20)

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#40

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:51 pm

Bad choice of word...the soul "goes on." Separation from God is death, so yeah it dies-I goofed.
Still, does making someone immortal, then sending them to a place where they will be placed in fire forever sound very loving to you?
He doesn't send them there, sinners send themselves there. He wants them to come to them, that's why He died for us. God is a judge, so sin must be punished. He is also loving and merciful, and sacrificed His Son for us. God can hold onto one extreme with one hand while holding the other. God is kind of a paradox.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous

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