The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Sun May 30, 2010 5:12 pm

This is the typical take most people like you have.


You were the one who accused us of being judgmental...there is nothing wrong with saying that pot messes with someone's head and they shouldn't use it...I know you said it, but you also then went on to say that we shouldn't judge. I was merely pointing out the difference between judging and discerning. No one here can say that they wouldn't become trapped in an addiction. There but for the grace of God....

But for someone to willingly continue in destructive behavior, or to declare it fine when it clearly has detrimental affects, is something that we can make a judgment on.

Instead of helping the situation you make it worse.


Ummm, please point out how a debate and discussion on the merits and negative affects on marijuana makes the situation worse?!?!? whose judging now??

Yes a slim jim and fatty processed foods will affect you negatively, clogged arteries may lead to a stroke, heart attack, obesity, heart disease, and on and on. Yes that will effect your memory, brain, or a relationship. I hope your not driving a car if that were to happen. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. So please unclinch your fists.


Somehow, I don't think it's my fists that need unclenching! The point is, marijuana will affect your driving and can make you a danger on the road (not to mention all of the other drugs!). Which certainly makes it worthy of regulation. It hardly seems an equitable comparision, marijuana, directly affecting brain function, versus a slim jim...which would take years and years to have the same dangerous problem.

This is a civil debate, no clenched fists on my end.
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby Proinsias » Sun May 30, 2010 5:58 pm

Zoe: Eating junk food isn't too good for you. Nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and many other drugs, including prescribed drugs, are not too good for you either. I have a friend who eats fastfood every day, I have friends who will smoke a joint a few times a year. Poison is a matter of dosage.

zoegirl wrote:The point is, marijuana will affect your driving and can make you a danger on the road (not to mention all of the other drugs!). Which certainly makes it worthy of regulation.


So it should be regulated in a similar way as alcohol is? Don't smoke and drive. If you need to drive and are finding it difficult then use caffeine, it's legal and you can have as much of it as you want. You might cause an accident, but it will be a legal one.

Sorry if it appears I'm anti caffeine, I love it. I'm a tea enthusiast. I just see so many people living on, bad, coffee and caffeinated energy drinks. They sell them in shots at the counter in pretty much every shop I visit. Many people I know can't function without caffeine, but people don't seem to view it as a drug, or a problem.

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Sun May 30, 2010 6:07 pm

Proinsias wrote:Zoe: Eating junk food isn't too good for you. Nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and many other drugs, including prescribed drugs, are not too good for you either. I have a friend who eats fastfood every day, I have friends who will smoke a joint a few times a year. Poison is a matter of dosage.


of course, I wasn't endorsing slim ims or any other such junk food...but to compare the two seems rather...overkill

zoegirl wrote:The point is, marijuana will affect your driving and can make you a danger on the road (not to mention all of the other drugs!). Which certainly makes it worthy of regulation.


So it should be regulated in a similar way as alcohol is? Don't smoke and drive. If you need to drive and are finding it difficult then use caffeine, it's legal and you can have as much of it as you want. You might cause an accident, but it will be a legal one.

Sorry if it appears I'm anti caffeine, I love it. I'm a tea enthusiast. I just see so many people living on, bad, coffee and caffeinated energy drinks. They sell them in shots at the counter in pretty much every shop I visit. Many people I know can't function without caffeine, but people don't seem to view it as a drug, or a problem.


I was going back to the comparison between slim jims and pot...one directly affects brain function and your judgment is impaired, rather greatly, and the other doesn't....
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby Proinsias » Sun May 30, 2010 6:38 pm

zoegirl wrote:of course, I wasn't endorsing slim ims or any other such junk food...but to compare the two seems rather...overkill


I don't see the overkill. Fast food or weed, every so often either is fine. All the time isn't good.

zoegirl wrote:I was going back to the comparison between slim jims and pot...one directly affects brain function and your judgment is impaired, rather greatly, and the other doesn't....

Should we stop using using anything which we find out directly affects the brain?

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Sun May 30, 2010 7:05 pm

Insofar as each affects the brain adversely, impairs judgment, yes....!

THC directly goes immediately to the brain through the lungs and into the bloodstream while alcohol takes some processing through the digestive system. It is entirely possible to enjoy a drink without losing control (thus the Blood alcohol limit) while the alcohol is processed and detoxed in the liver.

How many times inhaling before it affects the brain? Within seconds, thus it is nearly impossible to enjoy any amount without it adversely affecting judgment, memory, and perception.
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Sun May 30, 2010 7:15 pm

look, I'm not trying to demonize this over other drugs or even years and years of bad eating habits. But let's not try to minimize this. This is not the same thing as a twinkie, slim jim, or even french fries. Eating french fries at McD's does not affect the brain. A twinkie does not make a person laugh hysterically at nothing, nor does it cause a high.

even at a neurological level, all a twinkie will do is release a bunch of dopamine in the brain, the same as exercise, laughing, chocolate, or a massage. It may affect the body but it is certainly not in the same category as any drug.
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Sun May 30, 2010 7:34 pm

"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby sinnerbybirth » Mon May 31, 2010 8:30 am

Zoegirl,

Thanks again for the debate. I agree it's bad for you. Maybe I miss read you and for that I am truely sorry. My personal fight is with people using hard core drugs, this is one of my hot button issues.

I have a friend who, in April, got arrested and faces charges of: Theft of property motor vehical, kidnapping, and terroristic threatening. When police searched his van they found used neddles. He will face prison time. He has two beautiful boys and a wife, what a waste. Meth was involved. His big thing was drinking, I never though he would get involved in meth again. I, by no means, am trying to diminish the fact that pot is bad. I'm just trying to help those who have severe drug addiction.

Addiction is defined as: The state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psycologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

Addiction can be anything. Drugs, Food, Cars, Video Games, T.V., Money, Toys, Even Forums. Although, I prefer this forum. Some may not.

Just for grins Zoegirl, what do you think should be done about Marijuana?

Thanks again, and no hard feelings. :) GOD Bless!

P.S. Please, Pray for our troops and there families this Memorial Day, both past and present! y[-o<

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby DannyM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:41 am

Proinsias wrote:Zoe: Eating junk food isn't too good for you. Nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and many other drugs, including prescribed drugs, are not too good for you either. I have a friend who eats fastfood every day, I have friends who will smoke a joint a few times a year. Poison is a matter of dosage.

zoegirl wrote:The point is, marijuana will affect your driving and can make you a danger on the road (not to mention all of the other drugs!). Which certainly makes it worthy of regulation.


So it should be regulated in a similar way as alcohol is? Don't smoke and drive. If you need to drive and are finding it difficult then use caffeine, it's legal and you can have as much of it as you want. You might cause an accident, but it will be a legal one.

Sorry if it appears I'm anti caffeine, I love it. I'm a tea enthusiast. I just see so many people living on, bad, coffee and caffeinated energy drinks. They sell them in shots at the counter in pretty much every shop I visit. Many people I know can't function without caffeine, but people don't seem to view it as a drug, or a problem.


Pro, No! Leave alone all the irrelevent 'arguments' about this or that being not-too great-for-you...take Cannabis on its 'merits'! Your line of argument is one of the most out-dated and obscure arguments which does not in any way shape or form negate the real potential psychosis-related dangers of cannabis. Forget what is "legal now"...Focus on the real harms of cannabis...

Danny
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby Proinsias » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:04 pm

zoegirl wrote:Insofar as each affects the brain adversely, impairs judgment, yes....!

THC directly goes immediately to the brain through the lungs and into the bloodstream while alcohol takes some processing through the digestive system. It is entirely possible to enjoy a drink without losing control (thus the Blood alcohol limit) while the alcohol is processed and detoxed in the liver.

How many times inhaling before it affects the brain? Within seconds, thus it is nearly impossible to enjoy any amount without it adversely affecting judgment, memory, and perception.


Yes smoking something does mean it will hit you faster than digesting something. But if you have a drink of alcohol it's gonna affect your brain and your control. There are rough guidlinies as to what is safe but these can be applied to cannabis as they can be applied to alcohol imo - especially if it was regulated and sold with clear indications as to strength as alcohol or tobacco is.

zoegirl wrote:For a bit of levity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-slZNNxk9a4


:lol:

I do think that illustrates part of the problem. If they legalise it, or decriminalise it, many people will view it as safe and go wild.

DannyM wrote:Pro, No! Leave alone all the irrelevent 'arguments' about this or that being not-too great-for-you...take Cannabis on its 'merits'! Your line of argument is one of the most out-dated and obscure arguments which does not in any way shape or form negate the real potential psychosis-related dangers of cannabis. Forget what is "legal now"...Focus on the real harms of cannabis...

Danny


I do realise there is the potential for psychosis, it also has the potential to be used in a moderate and controlled fashion without much issue. I know doctors, lawyers and dentists who occasionally partake in cannabis, and stronger stuff, have done for years and get on just fine. If someone's smoking high strength skunk everyday and ends up in hospital I don't think this should prevent someone who is perfectly functional and successful in everyday life having the odd joint, In truth it doesn't stop them and the police around here tend to turn a blind eye to small amounts of the stuff as they've said it's a waste of time and resources.

I'm enjoying a glass of wine at the moment but I know that wine has the real potential to destroy my body and family if I drink it all the time. I'm still gonna drink the glass of wine. I might even have another few as I've got a rare opportunity for a long lie tomorrow as my daughter is at the in laws.

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby DannyM » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:42 pm

Proinsias wrote:I do realise there is the potential for psychosis, it also has the potential to be used in a moderate and controlled fashion without much issue. I know doctors, lawyers and dentists who occasionally partake in cannabis, and stronger stuff, have done for years and get on just fine. If someone's smoking high strength skunk everyday and ends up in hospital I don't think this should prevent someone who is perfectly functional and successful in everyday life having the odd joint, In truth it doesn't stop them and the police around here tend to turn a blind eye to small amounts of the stuff as they've said it's a waste of time and resources.

I'm enjoying a glass of wine at the moment but I know that wine has the real potential to destroy my body and family if I drink it all the time. I'm still gonna drink the glass of wine. I might even have another few as I've got a rare opportunity for a long lie tomorrow as my daughter is at the in laws.


Again, Pro, what you have said here just doesn't hold water. If you wish to ban alcohol I'll help you start a petition, but nothing you have said really negates the real-life potential psychotic harm, even if used fairly moderately, that cannabis does to users; not to mention the affect and devastating impact on familes...I'm not sure if you're aware of how cannabis affects whole families of hundreds of young smokers in every area of the country. That a few professionals decide to have the 'occasional' joint doesn't even touch the issue we have with thousands upon thousands of young/young-adults smoking very high levels of cannabis, let alone all the moderate users who are still at risk and are still smoking the same harmful drug.

If you were to advocate legalising cannabis, what would be in place to be sure the goernment-sponsored cannabis selling machine would eradicate the illegal selling of the drug? What would be in place to achieve this?

What would be in place to reduce the harm-levels of the appropriate chemicals once legalisation happens?

What if any correlation is there between legalising cannabis and reducing the levels of usage among cannabis users thus begging the question how would legalising cannabis reduce the level of (the ones we know of) psychosis-related illnesses and consequential family breakdowns?

How would we dish it out? At what 'levels' would this be regulated? Where is the cut off point and at what risk-level do we set it at?

I've got loads more questions, Pro, but can't think of them all right now y:-?

Danny off to skin up! Joke ;)
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby zoegirl » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:15 pm

From a control standpoint, however, there is no amount of pot you can have that doesn't affect you....shoot that's the reason people like it so much, it gets you high almost immediately because there is no filter. One drink won't affect you like one or two puffs will.
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby Proinsias » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:10 pm

I don't want to ban alcohol.

As you say it's prevalent across the whole country, and it isn't going to go away.

If you were to advocate legalising cannabis, what would be in place to be sure the goernment-sponsored cannabis selling machine would eradicate the illegal selling of the drug? What would be in place to achieve this?


Same as alcohol pretty much. During prohibition times there's plenty of illegal alcohol, it's pretty much non existent here to the point I've not heard it mentioned in the news in memory. I don't know of anyone who drinks alcohol, underage or otherwise, who procures it from the criminal underworld. It comes from regulated sources who put money into education and rehabilitation schemes.
I'm sure there would be a transition period as the those who make money via any illegal means don't want to lose a massive amount of their income but I'd venture most people would prefer to buy cannabis from Asda along with their beer and cigarettes than from a drug dealer. If there's a legal means of acquiring something by far the majority of people will use it, filesharing may be poised as an example against this but that's a different beast as it is more about the potential loss of money than about money being funneled elsewhere.
What would be in place to reduce the harm-levels of the appropriate chemicals once legalisation happens?


Same as alcohol and cigarettes. A government body and very clear labeling - cigarettes are currently plastered with SMOKING KILLS, I've known a few people who have survived psychosis and lead fulfilling lives, being killed is pretty deadly.

What if any correlation is there between legalising cannabis and reducing the levels of usage among cannabis users thus begging the question how would legalising cannabis reduce the level of (the ones we know of) psychosis-related illnesses and consequential family breakdowns?


I don't know.

How would we dish it out? At what 'levels' would this be regulated? Where is the cut off point and at what risk-level do we set it at?


Well the government tried that and rejected the results of the body they commissioned. Presumably they were not expecting those results. "He also repeated his claim that the risks of taking ecstasy are no worse than riding a horse. " We can provide education as to what may be safe levels for the 'average person'. They commission the studies and reject the findings as it doesn't fit with preconceptions.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 44981.html

If they make alcohol illegal it won't go away, my homebrew experiments have shown me it's far easier to make than cannabis. It'll just push it underground, give less money to the government and give far more money and power to criminal gangs who don't care what they trade in. It's perfectly legal to homebrew and millions do it, it's not legal to distill alcohol and I've come across one very old Polish guy who done it in all my life.

We would sell it in shops with age restrictions and recommend doses, It's up to people to be responsible.

At 14 it was far easier for me to procure illegal drugs than legal ones.

People use cannabis, I'd prefer the money generated by the use went to the government and registered companies than the criminal underworld. I think the problem will be the transition period. Giving people who smoke weed on occasion criminal records and custodial sentences doesn't help much in my opinion. Going after the big dealers means that there is occasionally a price increase and/or a quality decrease in the product available. I was told once at 15 that the house had been busted that morning and a few people had been taken away by the police, it would be at least 2 hours before they had anything to sell - chances of me getting alcohol on my own at that time were pretty much nil.

Zoe - I can't agree, any amount of alcohol will affect you, as with pot. It's a matter of dosage. What you, or someone else, deems as an effective dose is a matter of opinion. If I give my daughter a beer, she will get drunk, if I give a puff or two to someone who has been smoking pot daily for years it will have almost no effect. One drink will affect you, my wife metabolises alcohol very quickly - one drink and she's tipsy for half an hour and the sober again, she won't drive for at least 24hrs after even one though. One can of coke or a coffee gets her hyper, then she crashes. I can drink a double espresso then go to bed half an hour later - there's not a rule of thumb that fits all. If I smoke a cigarette it hits me immediately, I'm still capable of doing pretty much anything that I could do when I didn't feel it. People often realise they've drunk to much as it takes time to metabolise, they assume a sleep will sort it out and drive to work well over the limit. I don't think the time it takes to hit you has much to do with the danger, If anything people drink far too much and regret it as once they realise they're too drunk, by that time it's too late as there is far more alcohol waiting to be metabolised. By that token lsd is great, it takes ages to hit.

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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby DannyM » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:07 am

Proinsias wrote:

If you were to advocate legalising cannabis, what would be in place to be sure the goernment-sponsored cannabis selling machine would eradicate the illegal selling of the drug? What would be in place to achieve this?


Same as alcohol pretty much. During prohibition times there's plenty of illegal alcohol, it's pretty much non existent here to the point I've not heard it mentioned in the news in memory. I don't know of anyone who drinks alcohol, underage or otherwise, who procures it from the criminal underworld. It comes from regulated sources who put money into education and rehabilitation schemes.
I'm sure there would be a transition period as the those who make money via any illegal means don't want to lose a massive amount of their income but I'd venture most people would prefer to buy cannabis from Asda along with their beer and cigarettes than from a drug dealer. If there's a legal means of acquiring something by far the majority of people will use it, filesharing may be poised as an example against this but that's a different beast as it is more about the potential loss of money than about money being funneled elsewhere.


Where I come from most people by their booze cheap from either shop thieves or smugglers on a 'booze cruise'... there is always a market for anything illegal if it is better/stronger/cheaper. A government-sponsored pathway to legalised schizophrenia would not affect the dealers one iota, whether or not government, legal pushers by now, gained large numbers of clients from existing dealers; there are new smokers out there to be recruited, there is harsher cannabis to be put out there, there is a massive anti-authority attitude in this country, there is 'loyalty' to the neighbourhood, the regular dealers, intimidation, under-pricing etc. So legalising cannabis does nothing to prevent the illegal selling of the drug.

What would be in place to reduce the harm-levels of the appropriate chemicals once legalisation happens?


Proinsias wrote:Same as alcohol and cigarettes. A government body and very clear labeling - cigarettes are currently plastered with SMOKING KILLS, I've known a few people who have survived psychosis and lead fulfilling lives, being killed is pretty deadly.


Labeling cannabis with the obvious message still does not reduce the harm-levels of cannabis, the potential for psychosis. Look, I'm a former heavy smoker of cannabis, and I'm certainly no prude, but I deal with families who are utterly devasted by how their once happy children have turned into lethargic, extremely moody, violent (forget the myth about cannabis being 'passive' - have you ever witnessed the rage of a 'passive' cannabis smoker if you get on his wrong side the morning?), loss of goals, loss of ambition, change from loving child to hateful child, paranoia, extreme paranoia, morbid thoughts, hateful thoughts, eternal separation from once loving boy/girl and doting parents; I don't know how many characters this page will allow me, Pro, but I'm confident I could fill it with a list of (false) names of families who have lost their once happy, outgoing child/ren to cannabis; the child is now distant, angry at his parents as though it were their fault, abusive, jobless, goal-less, drop outs of collegue/university/school, living in disgusting accommodation... All this from cannabis alone.

What if any correlation is there between legalising cannabis and reducing the levels of usage among cannabis users thus begging the question how would legalising cannabis reduce the level of (the ones we know of) psychosis-related illnesses and consequential family breakdowns?


Proinsias wrote: I don't know.


There is no correlation.

How would we dish it out? At what 'levels' would this be regulated? Where is the cut off point and at what risk-level do we set it at?


Proinsias wrote:Well the government tried that and rejected the results of the body they commissioned. Presumably they were not expecting those results. "He also repeated his claim that the risks of taking ecstasy are no worse than riding a horse. " We can provide education as to what may be safe levels for the 'average person'. They commission the studies and reject the findings as it doesn't fit with preconceptions.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 44981.html


Pro, this fool who said horse riding is more dangerous than ecstacy was roundly ridiculed and derided. I debated this on another forum at the time, and the man's 'logic' was shockingly naive. Thankfully the silly government of the time somehow saw this nonsense for what it is.

Proinsias wrote:If they make alcohol illegal it won't go away, my homebrew experiments have shown me it's far easier to make than cannabis. It'll just push it underground, give less money to the government and give far more money and power to criminal gangs who don't care what they trade in. It's perfectly legal to homebrew and millions do it, it's not legal to distill alcohol and I've come across one very old Polish guy who done it in all my life. We would sell it in shops with age restrictions and recommend doses, It's up to people to be responsible. At 14 it was far easier for me to procure illegal drugs than legal ones.


Education and resources are what's needed; whether legal or illegal this is paramount. Trouble is, legalising cannabis will, as I have hopefully shown, do nothing to answer the fundamental questions, only to achieve the bizarre spectacle of government legalising, tendering, taxing and sponsoring this lethal drug; and make no mistake that it is lethal. I know people who say, "well it aint done me no 'arm, hur hur hur" and they are sitting around, jobless, claiming bogus benefits, no life, no get-go, constant family arguments and break ups....I mean these people are utterly self-delusional, Just like I was self-delusional!

Proinsias wrote:People use cannabis, I'd prefer the money generated by the use went to the government and registered companies than the criminal underworld. I think the problem will be the transition period. Giving people who smoke weed on occasion criminal records and custodial sentences doesn't help much in my opinion. Going after the big dealers means that there is occasionally a price increase and/or a quality decrease in the product available. I was told once at 15 that the house had been busted that morning and a few people had been taken away by the police, it would be at least 2 hours before they had anything to sell - chances of me getting alcohol on my own at that time were pretty much nil.


And you'll still be able to get cannabis just as readily from your neighbourhood than you will from Boots! Which brings me to politicians putting cannabis out to tender. All the previous aside, pro, what do you think of our current crop of politicians? Would you trust this rag-bag of political lightweights to deal (how appropriate! ;) ) with this in anything resembling a competent manner?
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Re: The Medical "Benefits" of Smoking Marijuana

Postby Proinsias » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:17 pm

Hi Danny,

I don't live where you live and things are obviously different. Maybe I'm being selfish but I'd rather have the choice to buy cannabis from a fairtrade, organic source which was taxed than from a dubious illegal source. They may not stop the illegal market but I get the feeling there's far more money changing hands over legal alcohol than illegal alcohol in the UK.

I'd wager there is some sort of correlation between cannabis being legal and the level of cannabis related psychotic episodes. I'm not sure which way it would swing but to state that there is no correlation seems like a leap to me. Do you have an data for countries in which cannabis is legal and ones which it is not which show that psychotic episodes due to cannabis are the same?
sponsoring this lethal drug; and make no mistake that it is lethal


Is it? They sponsor nicotine which has been shown to be lethal, one of the few arguments cannabis has going for it is that it is not lethal , lazy and pychotic maybe but I've not seen anything which claims it is lethal.
Would you trust this rag-bag of political lightweights to deal (how appropriate! ;) ) with this in anything resembling a competent manner?


Yes. With the obligatory 'bit of a mess'.


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