Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

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Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Gman » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:56 pm

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Folks, I saw Ben Stein's "Expelled" movie for the first time tonight so I thought I would give my review on it while it was fresh in my mind. But before I give mine, I thought I would give our web site's view on it first.

"Several visitors have asked about Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. This is a review of the movie by Bob Stuart, a friend of the ministry. It is apparent from the review that the movie is entertaining and informative. However, it has some elements that we find troublesome and inaccurate, so that we cannot enthusiastically support it." -Rich Deem

More about it here... http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/expelled.html

My first impression of it is quite good.... Ben starts off how there seems to be a certain amount of bias among scientists when it comes to Intelligent Design (ID) equating it to the holocaust in many respects (if you support it). He then has an interview with scientist, Stephen C. Meyer who wrote a pro-ID paper, which eventually gets him black-listed among many scientific orgs. There are also a number of other scientists that get black-listed as well, some for even simply mentioning ID in their classrooms. What Stein does that makes it pretty effective is when he interviews these scientists he runs these old movie clips (metaphors) of kids getting beat up by bullies or Nazi's interrogating prisoners. It punctuates his point pretty well I thought...

For me I would have to say the most effective part of the movie was when Stein interviews various Darwinian scientists on how life originated. For the most part, many of them struggled or were spooked in this area. One scientist (I forget his name) stated that life started on the backs of crystals or crystalline structures (that got a laugh). Others said it was "Panspermia" or "seeding," anything other than design, but probably the funniest was Richard Dawkins answer. At first he states, "it was probably a very slow process at first, then mutations occurred.." At this point Stein presses on, "But how did life get started?" Richards reply? "No one really knows how life got started." y:O2

Other strong points he makes is that when it comes to scientific claims, many scientists believe that their views comes first and then the world's views come next. You can't or are not allowed to question the paradigm. It was already settled in court and to do so is "unlawful." It is science first and then (perhaps) religion... Almost like a dogmatic approach to everything and how dare you question our authority (or the "law" for that matter)... He made some very effective key points there.

Perhaps the only problem I have with the movie is when Stein stated that Darwinism as a science could "potentially" rationalize itself with the use of Eugenics (concerned with the elimination of hereditary diseases) and how the Nazi's (who's rise came from evolutionary thinking) used this philosophy to exterminate the Jews. My heredity is actually part Jewish too, but I don't think Stein had to go there to exaggerate that point. It was almost being too thorough in my view...

Technically the movie is really NOT about the scientific claims of ID, it is more about the controversies surrounding it and the doubts on Darwinism.. He does get into a little about DNA and the chances (impossibilities) of it forming on it's own (via slot machines), but he pretty much leaves it at that. Also he alludes to the YEC 7 day creation approach, but pretty much leaves it alone as well. I really didn't think it promoted YEC views much at all or OEC for that matter...

Interesting enough, this film got an applause from my very liberal California college town. I would recommend that you see the film for yourself to get better feel for it. Out of 10 possible stars, I would probably give it an 8....
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Rich » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:56 pm

Thanks for the review. I still need to see it.

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Gman » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:34 pm

Rich wrote:Thanks for the review. I still need to see it.


Thanks Rich. We would like to hear your views on it as well...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Rich » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:27 am

I did see the movie and have my comments to the page.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/expelled.html

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby cslewislover » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:49 pm

Hi everyone. I saw Expelled twice, and it seems to me that the most prominent point is that academics, in the biological fields especially, are not allowing critics of neodarwinism to be or remain employed. They see all ID supporters as Christians, and they want the Christians (that is, creationists) out of their hair and out of the science picture in general. Ben Stein basically says this at the beginning and the end of the documentary too, since it is a freedom of speech (and employment!) issue. When I had seen the movie the first time, I was a bit disappointed because I thought there'd be more details regarding ID and even some of the firing/denying tenure cases. But after I thought more about what Stein and the producers were trying to convey, I came to think that they did a good job. I think they're trying to inform mainstream America and more "mainstream" Christians about this subject.
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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Rich » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:07 pm

The major complaint of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is that it presents only the extremes. The impression is that persecution of those who endorse intelligent design is widespread. This is probably not true. Yes, there are those who persecute ID proponents, and there are atheists whose ideas are frightening. However, these people do not represent the majority opinion. Not all scientists are radical atheists. I am a scientist, who has been promoting design for 11 years on the web. I am still publishing in the scientific literature and haven't been persecuted by my employer or been "expelled." Most of the scientists in our department are theists. Some are Buddhists, and a few are atheists. The atheists are not expelling anybody, even though I have had conversations about design with them.

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby cslewislover » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:23 pm

Yes, I think the majority of people are not at the extremes, but I still think the science education community is influencing students to think that creationists are "dumb." I've experienced a lot of this myself on different forums online, and even from a friend of mine who's a professor in biochemistry. In addition, there's one strong case that I know of that was not in Expelled. An article about it can be found here: http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13660. I think with a lot of people who question darwinism (even just a little) or even just have conservative views in other fields, it's just getting to the breaking point. Besides, no one should lose their jobs in this manner; I really feel for these individuals.
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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby zoegirl » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:28 pm

just a quick aside....love the avatar
:)

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby cslewislover » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:35 pm

zoegirl wrote:just a quick aside....love the avatar
:)

"Who are you?"
"I'm the doctor"


Lol, thanks. It was on a public domain, and I copied it onto my computer, so I think it's OK to use!? Now to get a signature/quote to use . . . :wave:
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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Gman » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:06 pm

cslewislover wrote:Hi everyone. I saw Expelled twice, and it seems to me that the most prominent point is that academics, in the biological fields especially, are not allowing critics of neodarwinism to be or remain employed. They see all ID supporters as Christians, and they want the Christians (that is, creationists) out of their hair and out of the science picture in general.


I would tend to agree with this... Although I don't think we can claim that every ID proponent will lose their jobs, there is still alot of bias that comes with the stance. I know I get strange looks from people when I say I support it. They automatically think I'm a republican or something. The problem is that I'm a registered democrat... y#-o

cslewislover wrote:Ben Stein basically says this at the beginning and the end of the documentary too, since it is a freedom of speech (and employment!) issue. When I had seen the movie the first time, I was a bit disappointed because I thought there'd be more details regarding ID and even some of the firing/denying tenure cases. But after I thought more about what Stein and the producers were trying to convey, I came to think that they did a good job. I think they're trying to inform mainstream America and more "mainstream" Christians about this subject.


I think he did a good job too... I think they just wanted to stir up the controversies around it, not go into the science directly since the vast majority of people aren't scientists...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby cslewislover » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:22 pm

I would tend to agree with this... Although I don't think we can claim that every ID proponent will lose their jobs, there is still alot of bias that comes with the stance. I know I get strange looks from people when I say I support it. They automatically think I'm a republican or something. The problem is that I'm a registered democrat... y#-o

I'm one of those people that "decline to state" a political party. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone regarding Reagan, but I thought Stein et al. should've left Reagan out of their movie. It just justifies, to me, the opponents' prejudiced views that IDers are all republican and creationist. Thanks for commenting y>:D<
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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Rich » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:18 am

I do think the movie was made to pander to conservatives, which is why Reagan and the Berlin wall were featured so prominently. They could have done a better job presenting the views of other ID proponents who haven't been persecuted and maybe some evolutionists who are open to at least some of ID. Matthew Rainbow, a staunch evo-devo Darwinist, in a debate with Reasons To Believe scholars recently indicated that he is pretty certain that an intelligent designer made the first life forms. That was quite a step from where he was when I debated him two years ago.

Scientists: We've found creator's tracks

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby cslewislover » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:29 am

Ooh, that's neat. I'll have to look up more on Matthew.
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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Canuckster1127 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:22 pm

Latest news on this movie.

Yoko Ono is suing to remove the movie from theaters because of the use of a 10 word clip of the Beatle's Song "Imagine" in the film.

Where to start ......

Fair Use allows for this sort of thing without license of permission.

Yoko Ono wants to respond to a film about protesting censorship by ...... censoring it?

Yoko Ono wants to complain about the use of her "property" in a song that includes the words, "imagine no possessions ....."

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm hoping this draws more attention to the film and increases the Box Office draw ...... ;)
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

http://bartsbarometer.com/

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Re: Movie Review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Postby Gman » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:21 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:You may say I'm a dreamer...


But your not the only one Bart... I hope someday she'll join us, and the world will be as one... :mrgreen:
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8


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