'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

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'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Hortator » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:01 am

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... egood.html

References number 2 and 5 lead to "404" error pages.

The broken links:

http://paws.wcu.edu/jwhitmire/documents/Obedience.pdf

http://www.radford.edu/~jaspelme/gradso ... ulture.pdf

"That's really all I gawt to say about that."

Also, should there be an official "broken links" topic? Because I have found broken links in other articles before, namely the great, big "Why Natural Evil Must Exist" essay

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:36 pm

You should contact Rich: http://www.godandscience.org/formmail1.html

The website was more out of his personal interest I believe. G&S isn't some organisation. And, he's been through a bit the last few years. I'm not really sure what his intentions are. Except we have the board here running, kind of separate from but also linked to/from the main site.

But, do notify him though via that form.
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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby MBPrata » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:27 pm

Broken links are relatively common on this website, and that's one of the reasons atheists websites claim G&S of being outdated...which doesn't help convincing people with doubt or indecisions. :(

Just another example: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_de ... singleton/

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby B. W. » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:45 pm

The problem also is the result of other websites discontinuation of links this site has linked too.

Feel free to find as many as you can and let us know...
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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Hortator » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:31 am

B. W. wrote:The problem also is the result of other websites discontinuation of links this site has linked too.

Feel free to find as many as you can and let us know...
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That just seems wrong to me on so many levels, that some websites would do that to us....

I like this website, and want to see it shine. I'll look for more broken links when I get home from school.

A year later and I still haven't delivered on that promise xD

I think, if people need to verify Rich Deem's claims, when the data is pretty much readily available out there already with enough hand motions, then they're just trying to discredit what he says because of what he says.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Littlefinger » Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 pm

I do not agree that people are basically good, that would seem to contradict both evidence by science, history and the Bible. Look at the evidence. People make Hitler president, they crucify Christ. Edward Snowden who fight for truth and right to choice of privacy has to leave his country, Donald Trump who is caught in many lies and care nothing about peoples right to privacy and even boast of groping in public is made President.

Napoleon is more popular in France than Claude Debussy.
Scandinavia hail brutal Vikings over moral scientific minds like Kirkegård. Dalai Lama has to leave his country, wars and world wars with more killings than ever happens in the last century. Humans fear humans so much that limiting freedom and rights in the name of "security" makes sense to people, and spending more money on military than education and science does too. Nationalism is more prevalent than Altruism. What does all of this really say about people?

Jeremiah 17:5-8 teach "cursed is the man who trust in man" and the Bible condemns the rich and claims the first shall be last and the last first. All of this point to that humans are not good, for they can not handle power and truth without abusing it.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue May 23, 2017 5:29 am

People are basically good, that is why the majority do not commit crimes ( simplification, I know), that said, can I ask you this?
Do you lock your doors at night or when you are not home?

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Tue May 23, 2017 1:16 pm

[quote="PaulSacramento"]People are basically good, that is why the majority do not commit crimes ( simplification, I know), [quote]
Yet we still commit crimes against the LORD, even if it's something like lying or lust.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed May 24, 2017 4:50 am

There is good in the common sense usage and good in the biblical sense and NO ONE is good in the biblical sense.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Littlefinger » Thu May 25, 2017 6:30 am

PaulSacramento wrote:People are basically good, that is why the majority do not commit crimes ( simplification, I know), that said, can I ask you this?
Do you lock your doors at night or when you are not home?


Like so many others, you seem to be confusing morals and ethics. Not committing crime has nothing to do with good, any more than not gambling makes you a great dancer.
Being good is supposed to be at the top of a scale, that requires more than just keeping from doing what is at the bottom of a scale. You can not be good just by avoiding to do something.

And what you are saying is certainly not Biblical. For according to the Bible, none is good but God. (Matthew 10:18)

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Thu May 25, 2017 10:47 am

PaulSacramento wrote:There is good in the common sense usage and good in the biblical sense and NO ONE is good in the biblical sense.

Of course. Many people are good in humans terms, but not so in God's terms apart from Jesus.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri May 26, 2017 8:04 am

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:There is good in the common sense usage and good in the biblical sense and NO ONE is good in the biblical sense.

Of course. Many people are good in humans terms, but not so in God's terms apart from Jesus.

Indeed, that is why the distinction is crucial.
No one with sin is good and all humans sin so NO ONE is good in God's eyes.
If people were not basically good then we wouldn't have the freedom we have, the rights we have and so forth.
Again, there are degrees of goodness of course, BUT most people would rather be good than not.
Most people would rather get along, be kind, not steal, not kill and so forth and that is why there is civilization.
Again, we are not talking biblical standards BUT, lets look at David, he wasn't good of course and he did a lot of bad stuff of course, but God still called him "son", so it is important to understand that why no one is good in God's eye's, that doesn't mean we are all evil or all doomed or all have little worth.

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri May 26, 2017 8:12 am

Littlefinger wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:People are basically good, that is why the majority do not commit crimes ( simplification, I know), that said, can I ask you this?
Do you lock your doors at night or when you are not home?


Like so many others, you seem to be confusing morals and ethics. Not committing crime has nothing to do with good, any more than not gambling makes you a great dancer.
Being good is supposed to be at the top of a scale, that requires more than just keeping from doing what is at the bottom of a scale. You can not be good just by avoiding to do something.

And what you are saying is certainly not Biblical. For according to the Bible, none is good but God. (Matthew 10:18)


I think you need to read my posts..

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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby B. W. » Fri May 26, 2017 8:41 am

We humans simply have degrees of being good but seek to use goodness as leverage in the case of the afterlife we all face.

Jeremiah 17:9,10 states that we do not know what is in the heart.

Theologians have defined the heart as the seat/throne of the soul or the production room of the soul.

Luke 6:45, Mat 15:18,20, Mark 7:15,18 and Mark 7:23 reveal the same thing. Therefore sin springs forth from what is the heart and what is in the heart is not known until Jesus came and exposed what is in the heart in:

Matthew 26:3,4,14,15,16 and Matthew 26:47-75 and all of Matthew chapter 27 reveals what is inside the heart:

Justified Betrayal, rejection, abandonment, neglect, scheming, put on trial to convict (in our minds), false witnessing, mocking, scoffing, abuse, putting on people heavy burdens they cannot bear, crucifying those we do not like, etc and etc is what we do to self, family, friends, strangers, and yes God. These things cause sin to manifest and justifies sin.

I do not know one human being alive right now who has not done these things or hasn't been victimized by these as well thus spreading it around.

In that case, the good we can do cannot measure up against what is deep inside the production room of the soul...and that all human beings are in need of a savior who can forgive us, heal us, and deliver us from this shame...

Which Jesus Christ that very Savior...who exposed first what is in the human heart and then took our wrath for doing these things in our place -- comes from a love way too profound to fully comprehend when none of us deserve such salvation at all.
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Re: 'People are Basically Good' 2 broken links

Postby Blessed » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:19 am

B. W. wrote:We humans simply have degrees of being good but seek to use goodness as leverage in the case of the afterlife we all face.

Jeremiah 17:9,10 states that we do not know what is in the heart.

Theologians have defined the heart as the seat/throne of the soul or the production room of the soul.

Luke 6:45, Mat 15:18,20, Mark 7:15,18 and Mark 7:23 reveal the same thing. Therefore sin springs forth from what is the heart and what is in the heart is not known until Jesus came and exposed what is in the heart in:

Matthew 26:3,4,14,15,16 and Matthew 26:47-75 and all of Matthew chapter 27 reveals what is inside the heart:

Justified Betrayal, rejection, abandonment, neglect, scheming, put on trial to convict (in our minds), false witnessing, mocking, scoffing, abuse, putting on people heavy burdens they cannot bear, crucifying those we do not like, etc and etc is what we do to self, family, friends, strangers, and yes God. These things cause sin to manifest and justifies sin.

I do not know one human being alive right now who has not done these things or hasn't been victimized by these as well thus spreading it around.

In that case, the good we can do cannot measure up against what is deep inside the production room of the soul...and that all human beings are in need of a savior who can forgive us, heal us, and deliver us from this shame...

Which Jesus Christ that very Savior...who exposed first what is in the human heart and then took our wrath for doing these things in our place -- comes from a love way too profound to fully comprehend when none of us deserve such salvation at all.
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Wow. This is great stuff. Hard to hear. But the truth. What a wonderful revelation about sin nature in the heart.

Was this reveled to you little by little from life experience, theology, philosophizing, and learning over time etc., or was this impressed or explained to you during your NDE?

I wish there was a way to permanently get rid of these unwelcome inclinations and irrational thoughts of the heart. I have good days and bad days. :|

I have frequent internal,quarrels with God about the "good" I've done "proving" my consideration into heaven like some kind of criminal defense attorney in a high profile court case. After i sin, I have the audacity to blame God for "making me". Like watching porno. Afterwards it's all . "This is all your fault God i keep in shape make good money and you won't even send me a wife?". And "You made me do it". Then I throw Genesis at him "God you said it's not good for the man to be alone" "you created a wife suitable for Adam" "you gave me this desire" " why was i born in a feminism era" "you send me sluts" "not fair" "you made me do it" . Like some out of control smart mouth teenage brat.

On and on and on like you would not believe.

Of course Higher reasoning takes over i realize its A) Futile B) Wrong and C) Very sinful. Then I feel bad and scared of going to hell. God wants me to fight it and learn something. Instead I get convinced if X Y and Z were solved the cause of the sin would go away. I ask,forgiveness and God helps maintain and everything is perfect again.. then eventually sin just comes back... and the cycle repeats itself. Same for some of that other stuff you mentioned. It sucks. I want it gone permanently. The wages of sin is death. I pray not to go to hell but if sent i hope to be comforted knowing that my being there is saving others in heaven from being telepathically exposed to sin. Like someone with a virus who is permanently quarantined.


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