Prayers for Hillary Clinton

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patrick
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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby patrick » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:24 am

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:I'm saying I think the most compassionate thing you can do is pray she gets her priorities straight. If not for her, then certainly for the nation of people she's trying to lead.


I think Matthew 5:43-48 says that we should pray for them like we would anyone else, we should not treat them different, they may see us as enemies, but we should view them as our neighbour. Just like in the story of the Good Samaritan, he sees his enemy (neighbour) and he takes him and looks after him, he meets every physical need he has, even though he is his enemy.

I think we should absolutely pray for the health of our enemies, just as Jesus commanded us to do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I never said anyone was unloving, neither did I judge anyone. I also never said the spiritual side of praying for her wasn't important, but that doesn't mean her physical health is not important either.
The only thing I did was state how Jesus commanded us to pray and how we should love our neighbour, a big part of that is caring for their physical needs and not just their spiritual needs.



All I'll say is I think your concern is misplaced. Love for our neighbors is more than just sympathy and concern.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:28 am

patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:I'm saying I think the most compassionate thing you can do is pray she gets her priorities straight. If not for her, then certainly for the nation of people she's trying to lead.


I think Matthew 5:43-48 says that we should pray for them like we would anyone else, we should not treat them different, they may see us as enemies, but we should view them as our neighbour. Just like in the story of the Good Samaritan, he sees his enemy (neighbour) and he takes him and looks after him, he meets every physical need he has, even though he is his enemy.

I think we should absolutely pray for the health of our enemies, just as Jesus commanded us to do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I never said anyone was unloving, neither did I judge anyone. I also never said the spiritual side of praying for her wasn't important, but that doesn't mean her physical health is not important either.
The only thing I did was state how Jesus commanded us to pray and how we should love our neighbour, a big part of that is caring for their physical needs and not just their spiritual needs.



All I'll say is I think your concern is misplaced. Love for our neighbors is more than just sympathy and concern.



So are you saying we shouldn't be concerned for someone's physical health along side their spiritual health?
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby patrick » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:34 am

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:I'm saying I think the most compassionate thing you can do is pray she gets her priorities straight. If not for her, then certainly for the nation of people she's trying to lead.


I think Matthew 5:43-48 says that we should pray for them like we would anyone else, we should not treat them different, they may see us as enemies, but we should view them as our neighbour. Just like in the story of the Good Samaritan, he sees his enemy (neighbour) and he takes him and looks after him, he meets every physical need he has, even though he is his enemy.

I think we should absolutely pray for the health of our enemies, just as Jesus commanded us to do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I never said anyone was unloving, neither did I judge anyone. I also never said the spiritual side of praying for her wasn't important, but that doesn't mean her physical health is not important either.
The only thing I did was state how Jesus commanded us to pray and how we should love our neighbour, a big part of that is caring for their physical needs and not just their spiritual needs.



All I'll say is I think your concern is misplaced. Love for our neighbors is more than just sympathy and concern.



So are you saying we shouldn't be concerned for someone's physical health along side their spiritual health?


Not in equal proportions, no.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:53 am

patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:I'm saying I think the most compassionate thing you can do is pray she gets her priorities straight. If not for her, then certainly for the nation of people she's trying to lead.


I think Matthew 5:43-48 says that we should pray for them like we would anyone else, we should not treat them different, they may see us as enemies, but we should view them as our neighbour. Just like in the story of the Good Samaritan, he sees his enemy (neighbour) and he takes him and looks after him, he meets every physical need he has, even though he is his enemy.

I think we should absolutely pray for the health of our enemies, just as Jesus commanded us to do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I never said anyone was unloving, neither did I judge anyone. I also never said the spiritual side of praying for her wasn't important, but that doesn't mean her physical health is not important either.
The only thing I did was state how Jesus commanded us to pray and how we should love our neighbour, a big part of that is caring for their physical needs and not just their spiritual needs.



All I'll say is I think your concern is misplaced. Love for our neighbors is more than just sympathy and concern.



So are you saying we shouldn't be concerned for someone's physical health along side their spiritual health?


Not in equal proportions, no.


In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus says differently. If his spiritual health was more important than his physical health then why didn't the Good Samaritan look after his spiritual health first, why did Jesus only emphasise that every physical need was looked after.

I think Pope Francis said it best "You pray for the hungry, then you feed them, that is how prayer works". To me he seems to be saying that prayer is about aligning our will with God's will and then acting on that, which is to fulfill that need. To deny praying for the physical well being of another human is to deny yourself aligning with the will of God.

In fact I don't think I can think of one instance where Jesus didn't meet the needs of both.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby patrick » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:44 am

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
patrick wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
I think Matthew 5:43-48 says that we should pray for them like we would anyone else, we should not treat them different, they may see us as enemies, but we should view them as our neighbour. Just like in the story of the Good Samaritan, he sees his enemy (neighbour) and he takes him and looks after him, he meets every physical need he has, even though he is his enemy.

I think we should absolutely pray for the health of our enemies, just as Jesus commanded us to do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I never said anyone was unloving, neither did I judge anyone. I also never said the spiritual side of praying for her wasn't important, but that doesn't mean her physical health is not important either.
The only thing I did was state how Jesus commanded us to pray and how we should love our neighbour, a big part of that is caring for their physical needs and not just their spiritual needs.



All I'll say is I think your concern is misplaced. Love for our neighbors is more than just sympathy and concern.



So are you saying we shouldn't be concerned for someone's physical health along side their spiritual health?


Not in equal proportions, no.


In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus says differently. If his spiritual health was more important than his physical health then why didn't the Good Samaritan look after his spiritual health first, why did Jesus only emphasise that every physical need was looked after.

I think Pope Francis said it best "You pray for the hungry, then you feed them, that is how prayer works". To me he seems to be saying that prayer is about aligning our will with God's will and then acting on that, which is to fulfill that need. To deny praying for the physical well being of another human is to deny yourself aligning with the will of God.


If we really were talking about feeding the hungry I think you'd be making an excellent point -- by all means pray to God that your hand be guided in successfully treating the people you aim to treat. But that is not the issue at hand -- you and I both are not in a position to actually care for Hillary Clinton physically, we have good reason to think she's turned away from God, and far from being a victim, she's asking to be in a position to influence the lives of millions. Really if you're going to draw parallels from the Bible here, you should be looking at what it has to say about the leaders, both good and bad, before you start arguing we're not concerned enough about Clinton's health.

And no one here was suggesting that we shouldn't pray for her physical wellbeing, just that there are a lot more important issues to consider while we're on the subject.
Last edited by patrick on Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 am

Ok fair enough if that's how you feel, but I don't see it that way.

I may not be able to directly affect Hillary's health, but by praying about it, it may spur me to donate money to a hospital or some other charity which may indirectly help in some way, like the ripples in a pond kindness can spread out and have effects where we would least think about.

I remember Jesus healing a Roman Centurian's servant, Jesus did it even though this Centurian was a party to oppressing the Jewish nation. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Kurieuo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:04 am

I'd pray for the physical well being of those families suffering due to Benghazi, pray for the Libyans who had their country overrun with militant groups and are fighting a war against them, prayer for Syrians both Christian and Muslims who are also now suffering, pray for the people of Haiti many of whom died when much the aid the Clinton Foundation received wasn't passed on. In my eyes, she literally has hundreds of thousands of deaths on her hands, if not millions. Sorry, but I wouldn't pray for Hitler or Dr. Mengele's health during Nazi Germany with a clear conscience, nor can I pray for the dictator Hillary Clinton's physical health. BUT, I'd love to see her change and come to Christ, some remorse and the like. That's all I'd personally have to offer.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:07 am

Being a Christian is called to be like Christ, I think I have provided enough scriptural support that warrants praying for the health of everyone regardless of what they may have done, just as Jesus taught.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Kurieuo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:17 am

Well, then, I suppose I'm not very Christ-like when I see a contradiction when the physical health of one is contrary to the physical health of a great many. I'll pray for her spiritual health which is far more important.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:23 am

Kurieuo wrote:Well, then, I suppose I'm not very Christ-like when I see a contradiction when the physical health of one is contrary to the physical health of a great many. I'll pray for her spiritual health which is far more important.


I didn't say you weren't Christ like, what I am meaning is that I am just doing my best to act as Christ did, I am sure you are doing the same, our understandings are just different.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:04 pm

The bible does not teach us to overlook law breakers in order to show Christ-like love or else there could be no justice. We are to defeat our enemies not help them continue in their evil doing.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:19 pm

Jesus would disagree with that ACB.

Matthew 5:38-42

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


Seems to me he does want us to help our enemies, he wants us to give to them, care for them, heal them, pray for them just as if they were our own.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Kurieuo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:27 pm

Do you agree Daniel that it was fair and just to take down Hitler and those killing off the Jews via lethal means? What people don't realise today, is that there are many in positions of power today, who do the same thing, yet it is more covert and covered.

Passages taken from https://www.openbible.info/topics/protecting_the_helpless:

    Psalm 82:3-4 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

    Proverbs 31:8-9 Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

    Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

    Matthew 18:14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

    Matthew 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    Proverbs 24:11-12 Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it, and will he not repay man according to his work?

Now some may see Hillary is different light to me, not believing or understanding the seriousness of actions she has done. So I pray to God firstly to bring justice on behalf of the innocent who have been taken advantage of and/or lost their lives through the hands of greedy and powerful people like her, however may first prayer would be that all come to a state of repentance and accept Christ.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:50 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Jesus would disagree with that ACB.

Matthew 5:38-42

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


Seems to me he does want us to help our enemies, he wants us to give to them, care for them, heal them, pray for them just as if they were our own.


Jesus was teaching forgiveness that has to do with the way people treat you as a Christian and we should live by that but he also taught us to obey the laws of the land also.That is in noway teaching us to help evil-doers to do evil.Also there are limits to our forgiveness also and until the person repents we are not to just forgive them such like a wife/husband being abused. We are to get away from them unless/until they repent and then we forgive. We also pick and choose our wives,husbands,friends,etc based on their actions using righteous judgment.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Prayers for Hillary Clinton

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:24 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Jesus would disagree with that ACB.

Matthew 5:38-42

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


Seems to me he does want us to help our enemies, he wants us to give to them, care for them, heal them, pray for them just as if they were our own.


Jesus was teaching forgiveness that has to do with the way people treat you as a Christian and we should live by that but he also taught us to obey the laws of the land also.That is in noway teaching us to help evil-doers to do evil.Also there are limits to our forgiveness also and until the person repents we are not to just forgive them such like a wife/husband being abused. We are to get away from them unless/until they repent and then we forgive. We also pick and choose our wives,husbands,friends,etc based on their actions using righteous judgment.


Please explain how praying for someone's health is helping them do evil.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.


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