Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

[LonnieOwesn1973]

and rick while your trying to explain the last verse explain Matthew 3:17 as well....

[LonnieOwesn1973]

I am not trying to rub anything in nor make anyone feel bad... I am merely seeking answer as to why people believe Jesus is God when God calls him his son, the devil calls him the Son of God and Jesus asks God why he had forsaken him??

[RickD]

Guys,

As I said at the beginning, we need to focus on one, or a few verses at a time. Until we get some kind of understanding of the first discussed verse, it's pointless to move on. We can't let Lonnie just keep throwing out all kinds of verses, without dealing with one. He refuses to see the truth about anything regarding the deity of Christ. He won't deal with verses we give to him. Then he just throws the kitchen sink at us, and gets all offended when we don't respond.

You guys can continue to spin your wheels, or you can hold him to focusing on one thing at a time. And maybe, if we can help him understand one verse, we can then move on to another.

you wanna convince me Jesus is God... explain Matthew 27:46 without using a polytheistic approach... can't use rift because if a house be divide it cannot stand... not being sarcastic being real...

Our explanation won't convince you that Jesus is God, because you'll just deny the Trinity. You just call the Trinity polytheism, without bothering to attempt an understanding of the doctrine of the trinity.

Face it, you're not here to learn. Every time a verse is explained to you, you just brush it aside without any reasoning, and blindly dismiss anything that was explained to you. An honest person who really wants to understand, would ask further questions to clarify things that he didn't understand.

Someone unwilling to learn and understand will respond to verses speaking of the Trinity, by saying, "Bah! God is monotheistic blah blah blah!"

But someone who was intellectually honest, and really wanted to understand verses speaking of the Trinity, would respond with something like this:"Gee, that seems to say that Jesus and the Father are two separate Gods. Could you please explain what I'm not understanding?"

Face it. You're only here to push your beliefs. You have no honest intention of understanding anything we are saying.

[RickD]

Lonnie,

Go study the doctrine of the Trinity. Then come back, with at least a basic understanding of the doctrine, then convince us that you have honest intentions.

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Guys,

As I said at the beginning, we need to focus on one, or a few verses at a time. Until we get some kind of understanding of the first discussed verse, it's pointless to move on. We can't let Lonnie just keep throwing out all kinds of verses, without dealing with one. He refuses to see the truth about anything regarding the deity of Christ. He won't deal with verses we give to him. Then he just throws the kitchen sink at us, and gets all offended when we don't respond.

You guys can continue to spin your wheels, or you can hold him to focusing on one thing at a time. And maybe, if we can help him understand one verse, we can then move on to another.

you wanna convince me Jesus is God... explain Matthew 27:46 without using a polytheistic approach... can't use rift because if a house be divide it cannot stand... not being sarcastic being real...

Our explanation won't convince you that Jesus is God, because you'll just deny the Trinity. You just call the Trinity polytheism, without bothering to attempt an understanding of the doctrine of the trinity.

Face it, you're not here to learn. Every time a verse is explained to you, you just brush it aside without any reasoning, and blindly dismiss anything that was explained to you. An honest person who really wants to understand, would ask further questions to clarify things that he didn't understand.

Someone unwilling to learn and understand will respond to verses speaking of the Trinity, by saying, "Bah! God is monotheistic blah blah blah!"

But someone who was intellectually honest, and really wanted to understand verses speaking of the Trinity, would respond with something like this:"Gee, that seems to say that Jesus and the Father are two separate Gods. Could you please explain what I'm not understanding?"

Face it. You're only here to push your beliefs. You have no honest intention of understanding anything we are saying.

I am not here to push my beliefs at all... and so you know there is only 1 God in a monotheistic religion a polytheistic religion has multiple gods...

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him [highlight]only[/highlight] shalt thou serve.

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Faith Hope and Love... the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost the greatest of these is Love...

The faith that Jesus had, The Love of the Father and the acceptance of the Holy Spirit....

[RickD]

Guys,

As I said at the beginning, we need to focus on one, or a few verses at a time. Until we get some kind of understanding of the first discussed verse, it's pointless to move on. We can't let Lonnie just keep throwing out all kinds of verses, without dealing with one. He refuses to see the truth about anything regarding the deity of Christ. He won't deal with verses we give to him. Then he just throws the kitchen sink at us, and gets all offended when we don't respond.

You guys can continue to spin your wheels, or you can hold him to focusing on one thing at a time. And maybe, if we can help him understand one verse, we can then move on to another.

you wanna convince me Jesus is God... explain Matthew 27:46 without using a polytheistic approach... can't use rift because if a house be divide it cannot stand... not being sarcastic being real...

Our explanation won't convince you that Jesus is God, because you'll just deny the Trinity. You just call the Trinity polytheism, without bothering to attempt an understanding of the doctrine of the trinity.

Face it, you're not here to learn. Every time a verse is explained to you, you just brush it aside without any reasoning, and blindly dismiss anything that was explained to you. An honest person who really wants to understand, would ask further questions to clarify things that he didn't understand.

Someone unwilling to learn and understand will respond to verses speaking of the Trinity, by saying, "Bah! God is monotheistic blah blah blah!"

But someone who was intellectually honest, and really wanted to understand verses speaking of the Trinity, would respond with something like this:"Gee, that seems to say that Jesus and the Father are two separate Gods. Could you please explain what I'm not understanding?"

Face it. You're only here to push your beliefs. You have no honest intention of understanding anything we are saying.

I am not here to push my beliefs at all... and so you know there is only 1 God in a monotheistic religion a polytheistic religion has multiple gods...

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him [highlight]only[/highlight] shalt thou serve.

TRINITY

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

[DBowling]

Guys,

As I said at the beginning, we need to focus on one, or a few verses at a time. Until we get some kind of understanding of the first discussed verse, it's pointless to move on. We can't let Lonnie just keep throwing out all kinds of verses, without dealing with one. He refuses to see the truth about anything regarding the deity of Christ. He won't deal with verses we give to him. Then he just throws the kitchen sink at us, and gets all offended when we don't respond.

You guys can continue to spin your wheels, or you can hold him to focusing on one thing at a time. And maybe, if we can help him understand one verse, we can then move on to another.

you wanna convince me Jesus is God... explain Matthew 27:46 without using a polytheistic approach...

I already did...
I did not use a polytheistic approach, that is just a false assertion that you make to dismiss what Scripture says over and over and over again about Jesus.

Now how about Matthew 14:33...

33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship?

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Guys,

As I said at the beginning, we need to focus on one, or a few verses at a time. Until we get some kind of understanding of the first discussed verse, it's pointless to move on. We can't let Lonnie just keep throwing out all kinds of verses, without dealing with one. He refuses to see the truth about anything regarding the deity of Christ. He won't deal with verses we give to him. Then he just throws the kitchen sink at us, and gets all offended when we don't respond.

You guys can continue to spin your wheels, or you can hold him to focusing on one thing at a time. And maybe, if we can help him understand one verse, we can then move on to another.

you wanna convince me Jesus is God... explain Matthew 27:46 without using a polytheistic approach...

I already did...
I did not use a polytheistic approach, that is just a false assertion that you make to dismiss what Scripture says over and over and over again about Jesus.

Now how about Matthew 14:33...

33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship?

It is apparent that bothing I have said is even being considered...

Lest see, God is the only one you should worship not Jesus...

14:33 is about honor not worship two different things... Jesus also said to honor the mother and the father does that mean you should worship them like u would worship God??

Not dancing around anything just trying to get a straight answer to the questions I have asked...

There was actually one honest answer thus far but y'all ignored it all the way around and that is sad...

[DBowling]

Now how about Matthew 14:33...

33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship?

It is apparent that bothing I have said is even being considered...

I have considered it...
But then I dismissed it because your assertion was factually incorrect.

14:33 is about honor not worship two different things...

You are simply wrong on this
Both Matthew 4:10 and Matthew 14:33 use the same word "proskuneó" which means worship.

Jesus also said to honor the mother and the father

And the word that is translated 'honor' in Matthew 19:19 is "timaó" not "proskuneó"

So I ask again...
According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Now how about Matthew 14:33...

33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship?

It is apparent that bothing I have said is even being considered...

I have considered it...
But then I dismissed it because your assertion was factually incorrect.

14:33 is about honor not worship two different things...

You are simply wrong on this
Both Matthew 4:10 and Matthew 14:33 use the same word "proskuneó" which means worship.

Jesus also said to honor the mother and the father

And the word that is translated 'honor' in Matthew 19:19 is "timaó" not "proskuneó"

So I ask again...
According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

Going by you thought process and interpretation as long as we do the will of God we can be God equal to Jesus???

Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.

[DBowling]

14:33 is about honor not worship two different things...

You are simply wrong on this
Both Matthew 4:10 and Matthew 14:33 use the same word "proskuneó" which means worship.

Jesus also said to honor the mother and the father

And the word that is translated 'honor' in Matthew 19:19 is "timaó" not "proskuneó"

So I ask again...
According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

Going by you thought process and interpretation as long as we do the will of God we can be God equal to Jesus???

Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.

That is not my thought process or interpretation at all.
That is just a false statement on your part to dodge my question...

So...
Let's try again shall we?

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

[LonnieOwesn1973]

I am still waiting on an answer to the Matthew 4:10 because trinity is not an answer to that one...
and Matthew 27:46 as well... sorry trinity doesn't apply to this one either...
the fact that you dance around these questions and even avoid them is concerning to say the least... you cannot use rift because that would mean that Gods house was divided and this simply is not the case...

Plus since yall still want to use John 1:1 stating that he was with God from the Beginning, which by the way, it says was with and not God... unless you want to go down the road of polytheism then I would have to agree with you... but since we are not considering Polytheism then you would have to accept that Satan was with God in the Beginning so Satan would have to be considered God... remember God banished Satan from heaven for placing himself the same as God... this is going by your thought process and the way you have stated your beliefs...

As for the disciples worshiping Jesus the same as God and as well as worshiping God that would be a polytheistic point of view but then we are not talking in that since so that would mean that Jesus is only the Son of God and not God himself...

I am still waiting on the answers please...

and yes I have considered and placed on hold your views... the judge is still out because only one of you have actually answered with honesty and not try to evade with scripture that does not back up the claim... in fact, either Jesus is wrong or you are....

[LonnieOwesn1973]

14:33 is about honor not worship two different things...

You are simply wrong on this
Both Matthew 4:10 and Matthew 14:33 use the same word "proskuneó" which means worship.

Jesus also said to honor the mother and the father

And the word that is translated 'honor' in Matthew 19:19 is "timaó" not "proskuneó"

So I ask again...
According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)? No
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?No

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)? and God only...

Going by you thought process and interpretation as long as we do the will of God we can be God equal to Jesus???

Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.

That is not my thought process or interpretation at all.
That is just a false statement on your part to dodge my question...

So...
Let's try again shall we?

According to Scripture (Matthew 14:33)...
Is Jesus a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?
Is the Son of God a valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

According to Matthew 4:10 who is the only valid object of worship (proskuneó)?

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Definition

to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
to the Jewish high priests
to God
to Christ
to heavenly beings
to demons

Pay Homage not worship if you had used the correct meaning of the word then my answers would be different....lol... you gotta do better than that because I happen to have quite a collection of Lexicons here at the house... which would you like me to use???... I also have copies of the various codexes as well... you see I don't go in half cocked when I go into a discussion this serious...

I also have a copy of the Naghamadi, The book of Thomas and the Book of Enoch of which I had gotten only last year long after I had already had my belief that Jesus was not God...