Is salvation Given or is it earned?

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#31

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:50 am

Philip wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:46 am
While there ARE instructions per Christs and His apostles that echo the 10 commandments, Sabbath-keeping is not one of them.

Colossians 2: 16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

Romans 14: 5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Never once did the apostles instruct new believers to keep the Jewish Sabbath - unthinkable if they were expected to do so!

But what day did the apostles and believer meet and break bread together: The FIRST day of the week - not that it was a certain day they commanded:

Sunday: (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2)

As for the importance of The Law: (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2)

What was the period that anyone would be under The Law?

Galatians 3:19 (NASB) Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, UNTIL the seed should come to whom the promise had been made.

Who is the Seed? CHRIST!

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB) When He said, "A NEW covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to DISAPPEAR.

NO one is under the covenant of The Law today. Sabbath-keeping is a rule ONLY under the Mosaic Law!
ok so I ask, who did Jesus Kill for not obeying the commandments of God? If we are the followers of Christ and his Life was the example for us to follow then who did Jesus kill?

PaulSacramento
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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#32

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:57 am

If salvation is earned by deeds then Jesus died for nothing and Paul was a lunatic that lead millions astray.

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#33

Post by UsagiTsukino » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:01 pm

This is why I question predestination. If Salvation given and not earned what’s the point

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#34

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:13 am

UsagiTsukino wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:01 pm
This is why I question predestination. If Salvation given and not earned what’s the point
You have to define predestination.
Are people predestined to be saved?
Or are those that believe, predestined for salvation ?

The difference being the view that God has predestined people to be saved and others to damnation ( goes against God's character) OR has God predestined that ALL that BELIEVE are saved?

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#35

Post by UsagiTsukino » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:01 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:13 am
UsagiTsukino wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:01 pm
This is why I question predestination. If Salvation given and not earned what’s the point
You have to define predestination.
Are people predestined to be saved?
Or are those that believe, predestined for salvation ?

The difference being the view that God has predestined people to be saved and others to damnation ( goes against God's character) OR has God predestined that ALL that BELIEVE are saved?
Are people already destined to be saved? God does say he has plans for everyone. What does that mean? He knows all. Does he make himself blind to give us fair chances? He has given the prophets his knowledge.

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#36

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:44 am

UsagiTsukino wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:01 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:13 am
UsagiTsukino wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:01 pm
This is why I question predestination. If Salvation given and not earned what’s the point
You have to define predestination.
Are people predestined to be saved?
Or are those that believe, predestined for salvation ?

The difference being the view that God has predestined people to be saved and others to damnation ( goes against God's character) OR has God predestined that ALL that BELIEVE are saved?
Are people already destined to be saved? God does say he has plans for everyone. What does that mean? He knows all. Does he make himself blind to give us fair chances? He has given the prophets his knowledge.
There are those that God has specific plans for, they carry a great burden AND gift because of that.
For everyone, God has given ALL the chance for salvation for He loves ALL His creation equally.
All that believe are destined for salvation, the Gift is given to all.
The choice is theirs.
Does God know who will make that choice?
Depends on what you mean by that, do you mean God has a "middle knowledge" or that God has "foresight" ?
Perhaps.
Does it mean that God has CHOSEN WHO will be saved before THEY have any CHOICE in the matter?
No.

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#37

Post by UsagiTsukino » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:53 pm

That God has the foresight what we choice before we do. That God or the foresight that before I know knew him I would be saved.

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Re: Is salvation Given or is it earned?

#38

Post by DBowling » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 am

UsagiTsukino wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:53 pm
That God has the foresight what we choice before we do. That God or the foresight that before I know knew him I would be saved.
C.S. Lewis discusses this issue in "Time and Beyond Time" in his classic Mere Christianity.

Here is an audio clip of that chapter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHchZv4uE1c

C.S. Lewis specifically discusses the relationship between God's foreknowledge and his existence outside of time at 6:47 in the link above.

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