Evidence for God from Science

Stu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:30 am Just watched this episode of It's Supernatural!
All those who believe in once saved, always saved I advise you to watch this as the lady he interviewed says she went to and experienced hell and once saved, always saved is a terrible lie. Watch the whole thing before commenting. There is an advert about halfway through that you can skip if you want.

What she was talking about in this instance is unforgiveness. Not forgiving people in your life who have wronged or hurt you.

For anyone that has watched Sid's work over the years - he lo1oks the same since the 90's right up until today

Ok, so what are you doing watching Sid Roth

Though, I have watched him too... We all do dumb things

Nessa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:10 pm

Stu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:30 am Just watched this episode of It's Supernatural!
All those who believe in once saved, always saved I advise you to watch this as the lady he interviewed says she went to and experienced hell and once saved, always saved is a terrible lie. Watch the whole thing before commenting. There is an advert about halfway through that you can skip if you want.

What she was talking about in this instance is unforgiveness. Not forgiving people in your life who have wronged or hurt you.

For anyone that has watched Sid's work over the years - he lo1oks the same since the 90's right up until today

Ok, so what are you doing watching Sid Roth

Though, I have watched him too... We all do dumb things

How many people do you think Sid has converted to Christianity over the years? Probably many souls saved.....

Stu wrote:
How many people do you think Sid has converted to Christianity over the years? Probably many souls saved.....

Zero.

The Holy Spirit “converts”, if you want to use that term. People have no power to save.

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:27 pm

Stu wrote:
How many people do you think Sid has converted to Christianity over the years? Probably many souls saved.....

Zero.

The Holy Spirit “converts”, if you want to use that term. People have no power to save.

Agree with Rick here.

Maybe you haven't actually watched Sid then

Have you looked into the guys background?

He had Wigglesworth grand daughter (I think) on the show.
I think Sid had fun talking about how Wigglesworth kicked a baby into the audience.

Bethel Church also tried to necromancy the dead's anointing of a heretic

How about, instead, we quit going by what some person claims and just focus on what the Bible actually tells us about it. First place, when a person tells you they were saved before they supposedly had such an experience, one has absolutely ZERO knowledge of whether they were or were not. And as we don't know what someone's previous status was at a particular place in time, then we cannot know that their contention is accurate. PLUS, what matters is whether a person was PERMANENTLY cast into Hell. Let's say the person is accurately telling you, at least what they perceived to be true. And IF so - and I tend to doubt these type of stories - but if true, were they merely show a cautionary vision of a future that hasn't happened yet - and that may not happen at all. I mean, these stories are all over the map and give no one any certainties that would give a reasonably skeptical person to believe them.

If OSAS is false, then it contradicts a BUNCH of Scripture. And secondly, it means that God sometimes saves someone, not to ETERNAL life, but to some unScriptural version of TEMPORARY eternal life (the ultimate oxymoron!). And lastly, as God can perfectly see the future - does He save a person who He can perfectly see that will not remain faithful in the future? That makes no sense whatsoever! But most importantly, WHO, exactly, maintains our salvation - us in our own sinful fleshly efforts, or God Who the Apostle Paul says: "And I am sure of this, that HE who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." And so, Who is "HE" in that verse - a sinful man or God Who saved a person to begin with? Does anyone believe they came to Christ without God's help - what does John 6:44 say about that? "NO one can come to me UNLESS the Father who sent me draws him."

So, Scripture says we can't obtain our salvation on our own merits and the Apostle Paul says he is "SURE" that it is GOD Who BOTH begins our salvation and brings it to "completion." What does that word "COMPLETION" mean to you? How do you think Paul could be "SURE" of ANYONE'S salvation, if, once saved, THEY could lose it? This is unScriptural nonsense! Read through this, anyone who has doubts about it! https://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/ ... iever.html

I think it makes more sense to say, if truly saved always saved, and only God knows who is truly saved from the foundation of the world. However there are also many examples of Christians apostatizing. There is the free will aspect, where a person can kill themselves if they wish. When I say kill themselves, I mean a spiritual death that will lead them to hell.

Here is the mystery of "OSAS", only God knows who is truly saved. Mankind doesn't have that knowledge, so from our perspective it looks like people who are saved are dying. Therefore the term OSAS from a human perspective means nothing, because we are not God. OSAS collapses in a heap of smoke and God is exalted, because we are not God, but he IS.

claysmithr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:55 pm I think it makes more sense to say, if truly saved always saved, and only God knows who is truly saved from the foundation of the world. However there are also many examples of Christians apostatizing. There is the free will aspect, where a person can kill themselves if they wish. When I say kill themselves, I mean a spiritual death that will lead them to hell.

Here is the mystery of "OSAS", only God knows who is truly saved. Mankind doesn't have that knowledge, so from our perspective it looks like people who are saved are dying. Therefore the term OSAS from a human perspective means nothing, because we are not God. OSAS collapses in a heap of smoke and God is exalted, because we are not God, but he IS.

If only God knows who has eternal life, then we don’t know if we ourselves have eternal life.

If we don’t know if we have eternal life, then we don’t know how we could enter into eternal life.

See how your logic falls apart?

How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

Supporting scripture

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned

I have fought the good fight, have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing rootc of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

claysmithr wrote:
How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

So, in this scenario, what exactly does one have to do, or not do, to “finish the race”.

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:34 pm

claysmithr wrote:
How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

So, in this scenario, what exactly does one have to do, or not do, to “finish the race”.

Die as a Christian to finish the race.

claysmithr wrote:
How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

RickD wrote:
So, in this scenario, what exactly does one have to do, or not do, to “finish the race”.

claysmithr wrote:
Die as a Christian to finish the race.

What I mean is how in this scenario, does one remain a Christian? What does one have to do, or not do, to insure that one remains a Christian until death?

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am

claysmithr wrote:
How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

RickD wrote:
So, in this scenario, what exactly does one have to do, or not do, to “finish the race”.

claysmithr wrote:
Die as a Christian to finish the race.

What I mean is how in this scenario, does one remain a Christian? What does one have to do, or not do, to insure that one remains a Christian until death?

Keep the faith and not apostatize, it's really quite simple.

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:59 am

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am

claysmithr wrote:
How about this logic: Only God knows the future and who will apostatize. We are spiritually alive until we are spiritually dead. A Christian possesses eternal life and if they finish their race they will inherit it. A Christian who doesn't finish the race and dies spiritually will not inherit it. Mystery solved.

RickD wrote:
So, in this scenario, what exactly does one have to do, or not do, to “finish the race”.

claysmithr wrote:
Die as a Christian to finish the race.

What I mean is how in this scenario, does one remain a Christian? What does one have to do, or not do, to insure that one remains a Christian until death?

Keep the faith and not apostatize, it's really quite simple.

So, in other words, your view of (keeping)salvation is based on our performance, not on God’s promise to keep us secure?