What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

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Ged
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What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby Ged » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:42 pm

"In him (Christ) all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you (us believers) who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him."
(Colossians 1:19-22)


Elementary to the gospel is the understanding that believers have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ. However, the above quoted scripture from Colossians also speaks of “things in heaven” – not just believers on earth.

Moreover, it doesn’t specify whether “things” are angels, people or inanimate objects. So my question is, what things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled to God?
"Your name and renown
is the desire of our hearts."
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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:14 pm

Ged wrote:"In him (Christ) all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you (us believers) who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him."
(Colossians 1:19-22)


Elementary to the gospel is the understanding that believers have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ. However, the above quoted scripture from Colossians also speaks of “things in heaven” – not just believers on earth.

Moreover, it doesn’t specify whether “things” are angels, people or inanimate objects. So my question is, what things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled to God?



This is an interesting question that kindof stumps me but I like a challenge. But I think,things are the things man lost that Jesus retrieved for us by what he accomplished for us but also the things that were lost because of Satan that Christ got back for us.Like the keys of death,hell and the grave that he got.Right now I cannot think of all the things he acquired for us by reconciling them to himself,but I think I'm in the ball park of what things represents.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:09 am

First, more verses would be needed to support such a thing, that in Christ fallen angels can find reconciliation. In Scripture, I find nothing the sort supported, and rather the opposite. Those angels who oppose God have been chained and await judgement (2 Peter 2:4). Clearly, some are allowed to roam (e.g., Jesus' run-ins, herd of swine, etc), such are set in opposition to God, and knowing their time will be up, seek to harm, destroy and bring as many down with them as possible.

Second, are "fallen" angels in heaven or have they been cast out? If cast out, then it seems strange that there are angels in "heaven" that are to be reconciled.

Finally, there is no redemptive theology to be applied to angels. We can be reconciled via Christ because Christ associated Himself with humanity. Jesus qualifies as our "kinsman redeemer" because He took on human form, and so now Jesus is now related to us. He then satisfied the righteous requirement of the Law (vindicated by God against being a false prophet via His resurrection). Jesus paid the wages of our sin, which is death, setting us free. There is no supporting theology for angels to be redeemed via Christ, Jesus did not take up angelic form. Indeed, unlike humanity, angels to be individual unique creations without lineal ties to one another. Given all this, the blood of the cross has no redemptive power to redeem demons -- only humanity.

It seems an understanding of such words lay elsewhere.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby Philip » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:31 am

Let's forget the angels, for a moment.

Remember, God is an ETERNAL, creative being. He's been eternally creating things in whatever realm - whether intelligent beings or whatever else. Scripture addresses mankind and our time, our physical universe. But the God who is both eternal and eternally creative surely has been creating FOREVER. Scripture doesn't address those things. So, as I'm fond of telling my sons: "It's not all about US!" What was God up to, creatively, before around 14 billion years ago???!!! Have countless entire universes come and gone? Are there other civilizations so far away from us that we will never be able to detect them or communicate with them? Has God perhaps not told us of such other beings because they would never be relevant to us? Maybe God has just created countless other things in countless other dimensions? Maybe we are the first ones in THIS universe/THIS time? It's just that we are (understandably) fixated upon our universe and time - as if that's all there is! Point is, Scripture reveals ONLY the things God has revealed to us. Remember in Scripture, where the Apostle ponders with a bit of hyperbole, that if ALL the things and miracles Jesus had done had been written down, he supposed that it might fill all the books in the world? So, just because we don't know of and haven't been informed of other things God may have created - other realities, worlds, maybe even other spiritual beings besides angels - it doesn't mean they don't exist. It simply means, we can't know and haven't been informed of such. And so there likely IS much more for God to reconcile to Himself. y:-?

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby Ged » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:36 pm

Well said Kurieuo. Fallen angels are out! But I get back to my question: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled to God?
"Your name and renown
is the desire of our hearts."
(Isaiah 26:8)

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby DBowling » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:03 pm

Some thoughts...

In Romans 8:19-23, Paul talks about creation groaning and waiting to be freed from its slavery to corruption.

My guess is that Paul is alluding to the same thing here... With the future New Heavens and the New Earth God will reconcile all creation (the heavens and the earth) to himself.

In Christ

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:21 pm

So when the heavens and earth are consumed with supernatural fire at the final judgment is it just this universe or every realm other than the third heaven? Cuz if it's the latter then that seems to be a bit of a stretch.

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Re: What things, already in Heaven, needed to be reconciled?

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:22 pm

Then again...it was GOD Almighty who died for humanity's sake...so I guess it's not that big of a stretch if it's the latter.


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