Hell and Sheol

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
ConsumingFire
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Hell and Sheol

Postby ConsumingFire » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:46 pm

Is Hell synonymous with Sheol or are they separate locations/dimensions? Jesus' parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-32 contains imagery for Sheol that is fairly similar to the modern conception of Hell, which got me thinking. y:-?

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Gabrielman
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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby Gabrielman » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:09 pm

I'd have to research it again, but from what I understand (or at least think I understand) is that sheol is the waiting place for souls who are condemned to hell, so they are very similar, just one is a waiting place before the judgement, the other is actual unending separation from the Lord.
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm

Depends on what u mean by hell, it has different meanings. Hell can be used for Hades, which is basically Sheol. In the OT Sheol was for everyone, and to some like the SDA it still is, but to most Sheol aka Hades in now for the unrighteous. Hell can also mean the lake of fire.
That parable i'm not sure.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:36 am

In the OT, Sheol was simply the place for the dead, all dead, awaiting the resurrection.
In the NT and after ( the traditions of the church fathers and so forth) it got "intermixed" with the Hellenistic view of the underworld ( hence the mentions of Tartarus by Peter in 2 Peter).
Hell can either be viewed as:
Sheol ( place for all dead awaiting the resurrection and judgment).
A place of imprisonment and judgment.
A place of judgment till final destruction ( Lake of fire)
And so forth.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:38 am

PaulSacramento wrote:In the OT, Sheol was simply the place for the dead, all dead, awaiting the resurrection.
In the NT and after ( the traditions of the church fathers and so forth) it got "intermixed" with the Hellenistic view of the underworld ( hence the mentions of Tartarus by Peter in 2 Peter).
Hell can either be viewed as:
Sheol ( place for all dead awaiting the resurrection and judgment).
A place of imprisonment and judgment.
A place of judgment till final destruction ( Lake of fire)
And so forth.

Are u a SDA by any chance?

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby ConsumingFire » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:52 am

PaulSacramento wrote:In the OT, Sheol was simply the place for the dead, all dead, awaiting the resurrection.
In the NT and after ( the traditions of the church fathers and so forth) it got "intermixed" with the Hellenistic view of the underworld ( hence the mentions of Tartarus by Peter in 2 Peter).
Hell can either be viewed as:
Sheol ( place for all dead awaiting the resurrection and judgment).
A place of imprisonment and judgment.
A place of judgment till final destruction ( Lake of fire)
And so forth.

If Sheol is literally as described in Luke 16, then couldn't Sheol also be the place of judgement and/or imprisonment? At least on the fiery side of the gulf that separates the unrighteous from the "bosom of Abraham"?

If not then Hell being a place of imprisonment and judgement might make it a separate place or possibly (guessing here) just a name for the sub-region within Sheol proper (the fire where the rich man was tormented).

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:22 pm

This is good and all, but what we need to be more concerned about is the second death. The first death is unavoidable, unless I guess if u're one of those saints still alive at the second coming or those still alive at the end of the battle of God and Magog. The second one is everlasting...but in Christ one escapes it.

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Gabrielman
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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby Gabrielman » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:56 pm

I think they are separate. Hell, at least from what I have been able to gather, is complete and utter separation from the presence of God. Nothing good can come of that, it is utter darkness and sorrow, and pain for all time. I believe the imagery of fire is used to illustrate how bad being separate from God is.

Now is there literal fire? Well since nothing good comes from being without God, most likely. Most likely you will feel empty, hollow, and lost and afraid, all the while burning and suffering an unending death. I have some ideas on how bad hell really is, and that is all the more reason to talk to people about Christ. Without Him, there is only pain in the end.
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:41 am

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:In the OT, Sheol was simply the place for the dead, all dead, awaiting the resurrection.
In the NT and after ( the traditions of the church fathers and so forth) it got "intermixed" with the Hellenistic view of the underworld ( hence the mentions of Tartarus by Peter in 2 Peter).
Hell can either be viewed as:
Sheol ( place for all dead awaiting the resurrection and judgment).
A place of imprisonment and judgment.
A place of judgment till final destruction ( Lake of fire)
And so forth.

Are u a SDA by any chance?


My goodness no.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:43 am

ConsumingFire wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:In the OT, Sheol was simply the place for the dead, all dead, awaiting the resurrection.
In the NT and after ( the traditions of the church fathers and so forth) it got "intermixed" with the Hellenistic view of the underworld ( hence the mentions of Tartarus by Peter in 2 Peter).
Hell can either be viewed as:
Sheol ( place for all dead awaiting the resurrection and judgment).
A place of imprisonment and judgment.
A place of judgment till final destruction ( Lake of fire)
And so forth.

If Sheol is literally as described in Luke 16, then couldn't Sheol also be the place of judgement and/or imprisonment? At least on the fiery side of the gulf that separates the unrighteous from the "bosom of Abraham"?

If not then Hell being a place of imprisonment and judgement might make it a separate place or possibly (guessing here) just a name for the sub-region within Sheol proper (the fire where the rich man was tormented).



My point was that the understanding and use of Sheol and Hell has cultural context and one needs to understand that to understand how it is being used at the time.
Sheol for a pre-exile Jew meant something a bit different than to a second-temple Jew.
Hell for a Hellenstic Christian/Jew was not the same as Hell for a Medieval Christian.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby B. W. » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:40 am

Sheol in the OT and New is described very well in Luke 16:19-31 as consisting of a resting place for the righteous dead in one area and in another area set aside for the unrighteous with a great gulf between the two areas.

Very simple to grasp. Differing cultures like the Greek used word - Hades - to describe the bad place...

I would not get hug up on the use of the word Sheol, Hades, Hell or Paradise...
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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:07 am

B. W. wrote:Sheol in the OT and New is described very well in Luke 16:19-31 as consisting of a resting place for the righteous dead in one area and in another area set aside for the unrighteous with a great gulf between the two areas.

Very simple to grasp. Differing cultures like the Greek used word - Hades - to describe the bad place...

I would not get hug up on the use of the word Sheol, Hades, Hell or Paradise...
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I would add that the writers of the OT and NT seemed ( and I tend to use the word seem when things are implied rather than explicitly sated) the believe that there are different areas of Sheol/Hell, case in point Peter's mention of Tartarus, that any Hellenistic Jew/ Christian/Pagan would have understood as the area were the "titans" are imprisoned.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:47 am

Yea I noticed that similarity too, titans in Greek nephilim in Semitic and other cultures i think had something like this too. Sometimes people use similar ideas to their own like Hades to help converts understand easier.

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Re: Hell and Sheol

Postby thatkidakayoungguy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:55 am

Gabrielman wrote:I think they are separate. Hell, at least from what I have been able to gather, is complete and utter separation from the presence of God. Nothing good can come of that, it is utter darkness and sorrow, and pain for all time. I believe the imagery of fire is used to illustrate how bad being separate from God is.

Now is there literal fire? Well since nothing good comes from being without God, most likely. Most likely you will feel empty, hollow, and lost and afraid, all the while burning and suffering an unending death. I have some ideas on how bad hell really is, and that is all the more reason to talk to people about Christ. Without Him, there is only pain in the end.

Yes, and I think there's literal fire too. Jesus mentioned it, Daniel 11 hints at it, etc. Fact is many cultures/larger religions have a hell of sorts, usually not eternal though it lasts for a while. Buddhism has a hell for some that exists between incarnations, Hinduism has a fiery cleansing to the world, Jews have a purgatory type hell, ancient Greeks Hades, Egyptians a lake of fire, etc. More of ure tribal cultures/religions have simply an underworld but one Pacific Islander group has the souls of bad people being somehow eaten by fish, while the good ones go to some good island, so their's some understanding of a second death without the flames.
Makes me wonder, why do many people have this concept? And why do most put heaven as above the earth/sky?


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