Defending the Trinity in the bible

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Kurieuo
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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby Kurieuo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:53 pm

RickD wrote:Jenna,

Again, I point you to this paper by Jac:
https://cmmorrison.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/makingdivinesimplicitysimple1.pdf

Pretty much all of your questions, and the confusion is addressed there. This conversation is just going to go around in circles, until you understand some basics addressed in Jac's book.


It's explained far better in Jac's book. So rather than trying to rewrite what Jac already did a great job of writing, you're best bet is to just read the book, and ask questions if you need to.

Now go do your homework! :D

Philip wrote:Jenna, seriously, as Rick asked, please do read that. We're sincerely not trying to gang up on you, personally. But this is really important. Copy and paste various parts of what Jac wrote, and we can all discuss.

Don't do it Jenna, they're trying to brain wash you! Anyone who reads that, well... comes away weird. :econfused: :shock:
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby B. W. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:57 pm

jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:Well, either your belief OR the Trinity is unbiblical. They both could be unbiblical, but since the two beliefs are contrary to each other, they both can't be biblical.

You've already been shown multiple times, why your theology is polytheistic. The fact that you say it isn't, doesn't change that one iota.

thats funny, first i am atheist, but also polytheist. so which is it Rick? because it cant be both. do i believe in multiple gods, no God, or do i believe that there is ONE GOD, but that ONE GOD is ONE family (no polytheism there).


A family of gods... then?
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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby B. W. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:59 pm

jenna wrote:
Philip wrote:
Philip wrote:
Jenna, do you believe that the Father is God? Do you believe the Son is God?



Jenna: yes.


So, you do agree that, at the very least, there are two persons within the ONE God? That God is a duo?

yes. the difference is that i believe that those two are completely separate beings. just as there are two persons within ONE family.

the main problem here is that most here seem to think i believe there is more than one God, which i dont. there is ONE GOD (family), which is made up of two separate beings.


Two gods in the same family y:-?
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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby B. W. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:01 pm

jenna wrote:
Philip wrote:Jenna, if you believe that two SEPARATE BEINGS are both God, then that means you necessarily believe in two separate Gods - it matters not one bit whether those two beings make up one family. Belief in more than one being who is fully God is polytheism. Period. Note the ancient gods of the Romans and Greeks - they made of families as well. God is ONE - one Being who is God. One cannot separate into two, a Being who is ONE. That is extremely different than Scriptural-based belief in the Trinity. And there are Christians who struggle with the idea that the Holy Spirit isn't God - least not in the same sense as the Father and the Son. But they still believe that these all are withing the same, one God. Yours is unquestionable polytheism!

no. please note John 1:1-2 Christ was God, and He was with God.
This verse clearly states two beings, ONE GOD. there is only one God, but that one is made of two beings.

two married people will make ONE FAMILY.
many fish make ONE SCHOOL.
two socks make ONE PAIR.
two members make ONE GOD.


two members make two gods in one family of gods is more accurate...
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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby Mallz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:32 am

jenna wrote:the simple answer is these things are possible with two separate beings. One God, two beings. its called logic.

I think the confusion lies with equating a being with a person. There are different persons in God, but He is one essence. In your family, you are all, in essence humans. You are also all different beings. And you are all different personalities who are in essence human, but all have different beings. Which is why it's impossible for two humans to be alike. God is alike. He is being. He is three persons and is in essence God. So in using the family metaphor, think of God as existence who is in essence divine (is God) and existence is expressed in three persons who are only distinguishable in relation to each other.

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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby Philip » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:29 am

Note the characteristics of God. And then note how it is impossible for two separate beings to both have those identical characteristics.

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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby RickD » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:19 am

As we have been telling Jenna, and Mallz has reiterated, Jenna is conflating the meanings of "being", "person", and now, "member".
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

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"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby BigHamster » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:59 pm

Philip wrote:Note the characteristics of God. And then note how it is impossible for two separate beings to both have those identical characteristics.


*Christian Mysticism*..... God the Father expresses himself in two ways. These are the Christ Logos and the Holy Spirit (which are one with the father). The two expressions have their own intelligence. God the father (supposedly) has other expressions but these are beyond human understanding.


excerpt from http://www.researchersoftruth.org/daskalos_researchers_of_truth_system-htm/words-of-truth

"God is not what man calls God. Using the word God, man minimizes
Absolute Infinite Beingness and puts It to his own measure. Man has created
many gods. The ancient Greeks called them demigods and so did the
Egyptians. They were simply creating elementals (thought forms).
What are elementals? Within the universes there is Mind. Mind is
not God, it is the means through which God, the Absolute Beingness expresses
Itself either as Christ Logos or as Holy Spirit. Absolute Beingness
expresses Itself in many more ways, but we human beings can understand
only these two. How Archangels understand the expression of God, we
cannot know. We only know two qualities of God, the Logoic and the Holy
Spiritual. We believe in one God – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Now what is God and what is not God? God is Absolute Infinite Beingness.
Don’t even think that you are able to comprehend It, it is not possible.
When you try to perceive the light by looking at the sun with your material
eyes, you will be blinded. This is the same as trying to perceive
God using your material brain. Yet we can observe His expressions and
through His expressions we can know what God is, up to a certain point."\

"......when God, Absolute Beingness in Its Plurality, radiates
from Its Absolute Source (the divine holy Monad), to express Itself within
the Universes, It is elusive and invisible, at least to the material brain.
When we go to the higher noetic world, we can conceive more. Not
through the intellect and thought but through assimilation and ecstasy.
The Absolute Beingness (God) radiates within the universes elusive Spirit: the
Spirit “blows its breath” according to its will. When the Spirit hits on
light it meets with the Idea of man. What does it mean “it meets with”?
It means, that it is in the divine Plan, that within the universes there
exists a point, the Idea of Man. In this case the light represents for us
the Idea of Man. From this point, this ray of Spirit proceeds to become
man, a material human being. Still invisible and elusive.
Tell me, how many of us, as self-awareness, know their selves as
Soul-Self-awareness, before they have reached that point? Does the average
person know what Soul is? What God is? What is God, our real
Self? The Soul-Self-awareness descends and dresses itself with matter,
psychical matter, noetical matter, noetic substance and Supersubstance.
All these dresses are matter..........
Last edited by BigHamster on Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby Nessa » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:05 am

Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:Jenna,

Again, I point you to this paper by Jac:
https://cmmorrison.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/makingdivinesimplicitysimple1.pdf

Pretty much all of your questions, and the confusion is addressed there. This conversation is just going to go around in circles, until you understand some basics addressed in Jac's book.


It's explained far better in Jac's book. So rather than trying to rewrite what Jac already did a great job of writing, you're best bet is to just read the book, and ask questions if you need to.

Now go do your homework! :D

Philip wrote:Jenna, seriously, as Rick asked, please do read that. We're sincerely not trying to gang up on you, personally. But this is really important. Copy and paste various parts of what Jac wrote, and we can all discuss.

Don't do it Jenna, they're trying to brain wash you! Anyone who reads that, well... comes away weird. :econfused: :shock:


I hear some people play it safe by just reading some of it ;)

Not too much so they can keep their normality :consent:

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Re: Defending the Trinity in the bible

Postby IceMobster » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:07 am

jenna wrote:And why did Christ say He is not equal to the Father if they are the same being?

But He did, John 10:30
jenna wrote:the simple answer is these things are possible with two separate beings. One God, two beings. its called logic.

What you are claiming has no connection with logic.
So, in logic (reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity), firstly you define all the terms you will use in your hypothesis/explanation/reasoning/syllogism. But, you have failed on that first point while conducting something logical since, by definition, one being can not have two essences or natures. You claiming that is a family instead is irrelevant. Family is, again, consisted of more than one being and hence you can not believe in one being, one God.

Furthermore, you've given as an example one school of fish -- well, ask anyone you meet if there is only one fish or more of them in one school of fish. Everyone will say more than one. There is your answer, you can not believe there is one God in this family, but more of them. But, you do not, right? So, there we have a problem -- a contradiction.

You've given another example, two beings = one family.
Two or more beings create one family. Sure, ask anyone what is the minimum amount of beings you need to have for something to be a family. Anyone sane will answer 2 or more. 2 or more separate beings. 2 separate beings can not be 1 God, jenna.

Acknowledge the definitions of the terms you use before using them.
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