Understanding the Trinity

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
PaulSacramento
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:58 am

jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:God has provided salvation from eternal death, i thought this had been covered earlier? must have been a different thread. anyway, god's gift to us is eternal life, His punishment eternal death, from which there will be no resurrection. this is what we are being saved from, not eternal burning in hell.


So you don't believe that the passage in Revelations, about those not in the book of life being judged and thrown into the lake of fire?

The Defeat of Satan
7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven[b] and consumed them, 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Judgment Before the Great White Throne
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

yes, i believe they will be thrown in the lake of fire, but i do not believe they will burn for eternity. they will simply burn up and be gone, forever. the punishMENT is eternal, not the punishING.



The issue is that, according to that very chapter:
the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This states that punishment in the lake of fire is "forever and ever".

please note that it says the beast and the false prophet WERE, not are. they will be thrown in there and burned up. the ones tormented are the devil and his angels, since they cannot die.


Ok,but not really the point.
The point is that punishment in the lake of fire is everlasting, it says so right here:
"Tormented day and night, forever and ever".

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jenna
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
So you don't believe that the passage in Revelations, about those not in the book of life being judged and thrown into the lake of fire?


yes, i believe they will be thrown in the lake of fire, but i do not believe they will burn for eternity. they will simply burn up and be gone, forever. the punishMENT is eternal, not the punishING.



The issue is that, according to that very chapter:
the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This states that punishment in the lake of fire is "forever and ever".

please note that it says the beast and the false prophet WERE, not are. they will be thrown in there and burned up. the ones tormented are the devil and his angels, since they cannot die.


Ok,but not really the point.
The point is that punishment in the lake of fire is everlasting, it says so right here:
"Tormented day and night, forever and ever".

yes, but not for humans. for satan and his angels
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby RickD » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:05 am

jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
jenna wrote:yes, i believe they will be thrown in the lake of fire, but i do not believe they will burn for eternity. they will simply burn up and be gone, forever. the punishMENT is eternal, not the punishING.



The issue is that, according to that very chapter:
the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This states that punishment in the lake of fire is "forever and ever".

please note that it says the beast and the false prophet WERE, not are. they will be thrown in there and burned up. the ones tormented are the devil and his angels, since they cannot die.


Ok,but not really the point.
The point is that punishment in the lake of fire is everlasting, it says so right here:
"Tormented day and night, forever and ever".

yes, but not for humans. for satan and his angels

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Lake-Of-Fire
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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jenna
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:46 am

not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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RickD
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby RickD » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:56 am

jenna wrote:not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.

Matthew 25:46
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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jenna
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:02 am

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.

Matthew 25:46

eternal punishMENT, yes. not eternal punishING. when one is thrown in the lake of fire, they burn up and are gone forever. they will not burn for eternity. they will simply be gone, with no chance of a resurrection.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby B. W. » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:29 am

jenna wrote:again, i do not associate with any of these. i am not a member of any church or affiliated with any name. i am just a bible believer, in truth, justice and the american way. 8)


Not true Jenna you admit to associate with Herbert W Armstrong and even mentioned you have leaders...of his movement over you...

Armstrong's World Wide Church of God split up in splinter groups and you admitted to be a part of one.

You adhere to the WWCG doctrines. You belong to that group, please do not play us fools here, Jenna.

Have you forgotten you admitted these to us? Then why do you say you are not a member and affiliated after telling us who you follow as well as have leaders over you and you run something for them?

Bet you cannot question the contradictions of their doctrine can you or you might before their inquisition board or face group chastisement...

You defend that Jesus is Not God and that the Holy Spirit is not a He - not God either despite what Jesus reveals and the Holy Spirit says speaking as a He... You sound like Armstrong...

The bible is clear on who Jesus and the Holy Spirit is and that is not about privet interpretation based upon hubris of being right either...

You may not think you are under someones control and confuse this as freedom but dare rock the boat and you will find no grace from your group....
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby RickD » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:41 am

jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.

Matthew 25:46

eternal punishMENT, yes. not eternal punishING. when one is thrown in the lake of fire, they burn up and are gone forever. they will not burn for eternity. they will simply be gone, with no chance of a resurrection.

:? :shock: y:O2 y:-/
I'm not sure if I even should respond to this, but here goes...

How is someone being burned up, annihilated, the same as eternal punishment?
You seriously can't comprehend this?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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jenna
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:55 am

B. W. wrote:
jenna wrote:again, i do not associate with any of these. i am not a member of any church or affiliated with any name. i am just a bible believer, in truth, justice and the american way. 8)


Not true Jenna you admit to associate with Herbert W Armstrong and even mentioned you have leaders...of his movement over you...

Armstrong's World Wide Church of God split up in splinter groups and you admitted to be a part of one.

You adhere to the WWCG doctrines. You belong to that group, please do not play us fools here, Jenna.

Have you forgotten you admitted these to us? Then why do you say you are not a member and affiliated after telling us who you follow as well as have leaders over you and you run something for them?

Bet you cannot question the contradictions of their doctrine can you or you might before their inquisition board or face group chastisement...

You defend that Jesus is Not God and that the Holy Spirit is not a He - not God either despite what Jesus reveals and the Holy Spirit says speaking as a He... You sound like Armstrong...

The bible is clear on who Jesus and the Holy Spirit is and that is not about privet interpretation based upon hubris of being right either...

You may not think you are under someones control and confuse this as freedom but dare rock the boat and you will find no grace from your group....
-
-
-

i have admitted to believing what he taught. but as you may recall, he died a good time ago. you say i would find myself before an inquisition board? that is actually pretty poor judgement on your part, seeing as how i do not go to church, anywhere. they probably do not even know i exist.

and you please tell me where, even once, i have ever said that Jesus is not God?
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:57 am

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.

Matthew 25:46

eternal punishMENT, yes. not eternal punishING. when one is thrown in the lake of fire, they burn up and are gone forever. they will not burn for eternity. they will simply be gone, with no chance of a resurrection.

:? :shock: y:O2 y:-/
I'm not sure if I even should respond to this, but here goes...

How is someone being burned up, annihilated, the same as eternal punishment?
You seriously can't comprehend this?

yes, i understand this. the eternal punishment is eternal death. as opposed to eternal life. when they are gone, it is eternally.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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RickD
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby RickD » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:19 am

jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:not a single one of those verses says they will be tormented for eternity. sorry, Rick.

Matthew 25:46

eternal punishMENT, yes. not eternal punishING. when one is thrown in the lake of fire, they burn up and are gone forever. they will not burn for eternity. they will simply be gone, with no chance of a resurrection.

:? :shock: y:O2 y:-/
I'm not sure if I even should respond to this, but here goes...

How is someone being burned up, annihilated, the same as eternal punishment?
You seriously can't comprehend this?

yes, i understand this. the eternal punishment is eternal death. as opposed to eternal life. when they are gone, it is eternally.

If someone is annihilated, how are they being punished? How is non-existence, punishment?

You really need to think about what you're saying. It's really not logical.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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jenna
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:35 am

RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:
jenna wrote:
RickD wrote:Matthew 25:46

eternal punishMENT, yes. not eternal punishING. when one is thrown in the lake of fire, they burn up and are gone forever. they will not burn for eternity. they will simply be gone, with no chance of a resurrection.

:? :shock: y:O2 y:-/
I'm not sure if I even should respond to this, but here goes...

How is someone being burned up, annihilated, the same as eternal punishment?
You seriously can't comprehend this?

yes, i understand this. the eternal punishment is eternal death. as opposed to eternal life. when they are gone, it is eternally.

If someone is annihilated, how are they being punished? How is non-existence, punishment?

You really need to think about what you're saying. It's really not logical.

again, i know what i am saying. the punishment for sin is death. at the resurrection, those who do not qualify for the kingdom will be shown everything that they will not have, and then they will be burned up and cease to exist. how is this not a punishment?
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby crochet1949 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:57 am

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby crochet1949 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:06 am

Eternal hell was never meant for human beings to endure -- That is why God provided the only means for People to escape that agony that lasts Forever. It's really simple. The cross of Christ bridges the gap between us and God. Our sin created the gap.

We are used to having things burn up in fire. Sometimes totally but most of the time, there will be bones left -- depending on the heat and length of the fire before it burns itself out. But the punishment for satan, beast and false prophet is totally different. as Scripture points out.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

Postby jenna » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:11 am

crochet1949 wrote:Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

this was addressed earlier. this torment forever is for satan and his angels, not for humans. the beast and false prophet had been thrown in at some earlier point, but were no longer there, having already been burned up.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them


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