Understanding the Trinity

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5016
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by abelcainsbrother »

How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by Kurieuo »

goingsouth wrote:
Your mess is in claiming in other threads something along the lines of: "Jesus is God but not fully so." Either Jesus is God, or Jesus is not, there's no half/half or this percentage, that percentage.
Who says that??? YOU! Not one scripture alludes to that. To many, the bible doesn't explicitly say Jesus is God, it only alludes to it. I believe the bible DOES affirm Jesus is God, and the words of Jesus AFFIRM God the Father is greater.
Well then, it seems I have perhaps misunderstood you in other threads, because what I remember reading (I don't want to chase it up), what that while you believe Jesus is God, that He isn't fully God.

If you do accept Jesus is fully divine, and also fully human, then there is much Scripture to support both you and me in this (some are just willingly blind or have been brain-washed by some Christian cult to such).

I previously cited in Phil 2 and John 1. Here are some other clear-cut passages of Christ's divinity:
  • John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

    Titus 2:13-15 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

    Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.

    2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and bapostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
And, most certainly, Jesus chose to humbly submit to the Father, lowering Himself in status or role when taking on human form, but as He Himself said, He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. If you've seen Christ, then you've seen the Father also. Jesus and Jehovah/YHWH are one and the same.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
User avatar
Byblos
Old School
Posts: 6024
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:21 pm
Christian: Yes
Location: NY

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by Byblos »

goingsouth wrote: The trinity was devised by the Catholics in the 3-4th century who went on a campaign killing people for not accepting it.
Those damn romish catholics, it behooves us to shed every doctrine they invented. The only way to preserve Christianity is to reinvent it. :twisted:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
User avatar
goingsouth
Familiar Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:46 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: New Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by goingsouth »

abelcainsbrother wrote:How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
I have never denied my Lord, and you accusing me of it is wrong. I love the Lord, I love WHO he is, what he's done, and love that when it's all over, he's taking me home with him.

The reason why I started participating in these 'trinity' threads is because I dislike the judgmentalism displayed by people who say you're condemned for NOT believing in a trinity, or in any other contentious doctrine. That kind of self-righteousness....condemning people who believe different, is ONE cause of the Churches demise across the US and EU. Unbelievers have an unfavorable view Christians and the church because they can't agree on anything, and then condemn one another for disagreeing. Then you have the gold digging televangelist like Benny Hinn and Mike Murdock etc. which most unbelievers and believers detest. There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

In the opening statement on “The Christian Expositor” they quote,
"Non-Christians are welcome to these pages. You will find an honest appraisal of problems within the church." I've had some lengthy discussions with them. In one of our final exchanges they e-mailed me back and inquired about the word 'mixed' which infers an Arabian, not a Roman, in Daniel 2: 41 and said, "should we be warning people about Islam rather than the RCC?" People who see Catholicism as a bigger threat than Islam have some serious issues.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
"The greatest impediment Christians have obtaining Truth is when they think they already have it."
User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by Kurieuo »

Doctrine is important, sadly church sermons often lack it today, than it did say when you were a child.

Trinitarian doctrine is important for a coherent and consistent understanding of Christian theology, in what otherwise leads to all sorts of contradictions and errors. Whether or not one must have it down pat to be saved, three of four of my children I believe are saved, and the youngest I'm still yet to see, and they have no real understanding of Trinitarian theology (if many grown up Christians do).

Given you embrace a Binity of sorts, I wonder if you see any of the same problems you'd toss towards Trinitarians?
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5016
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by abelcainsbrother »

goingsouth wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
I have never denied my Lord, and you accusing me of it is wrong. I love the Lord, I love WHO he is, what he's done, and love that when it's all over, he's taking me home with him.

The reason why I started participating in these 'trinity' threads is because I dislike the judgmentalism displayed by people who say you're condemned for NOT believing in a trinity, or in any other contentious doctrine. That kind of self-righteousness....condemning people who believe different, is ONE cause of the Churches demise across the US and EU. Unbelievers have an unfavorable view Christians and the church because they can't agree on anything, and then condemn one another for disagreeing. Then you have the gold digging televangelist like Benny Hinn and Mike Murdock etc. which most unbelievers and believers detest. There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

In the opening statement on “The Christian Expositor” they quote,
"Non-Christians are welcome to these pages. You will find an honest appraisal of problems within the church." I've had some lengthy discussions with them. In one of our final exchanges they e-mailed me back and inquired about the word 'mixed' which infers an Arabian, not a Roman, in Daniel 2: 41 and said, "should we be warning people about Islam rather than the RCC?" People who see Catholicism as a bigger threat than Islam have some serious issues.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
How is it tearing you down to point out that it is not good to deny who Jesus is if you say you believe in him?You cannot hide behind a Jesus that is not God and claim this is the real Jesus and Lord.You must accept him for who he truly is and Jesus was fully God in human flesh.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by Kurieuo »

goingsouth wrote:Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
If this is coming from disagreement with your erroneous beliefs, you equally believe ours are erroneous. Perhaps, you should look into your own advice. Since coming to this board, you've not been interested in discussion, but rather setting other Christians "straight", demonising and tearing into the RCC, churches and Christians who differ from you. And when people disagree you cry foul? Seriously. Sheesh.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8355
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by B. W. »

You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by RickD »

B. W. wrote:You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
-
-
-
Why is it that all the fruitcakes appear when B. W. is on vacation?

I'm starting to think B. W. is posting as these nut cases, just to get us all riled up when he's away.

Shame on you Mr. Melvin! :shakehead:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8355
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by B. W. »

RickD wrote:
B. W. wrote:You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
Why is it that all the fruitcakes appear when B. W. is on vacation?

I'm starting to think B. W. is posting as these nut cases, just to get us all riled up when he's away.

Shame on you Mr. Melvin! :shakehead:
I think I chase them away... and, then, they are drawn to you :lol:

-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
thatkidakayoungguy
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1414
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5? Of course God could have more persons, but why 3? What is so special about 3? Ik that it has a special connotation, kind of like 7, and 3 is sometimes used as a good luck number.
User avatar
Philip
Site Owner
Posts: 9405
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by Philip »

TheKid: Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5?

Because that's not what He is.
TheKid: Of course God could have more persons ...
No He could not, as He does not change. He is what He is - which is why He is "I Am."
TheKid: Why 3?
Because God is three Persons - not one, two or 50.
thatkidakayoungguy
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1414
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

Philip wrote:TheKid: Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5?

Because that's not what He is.
TheKid: Of course God could have more persons ...
No He could not, as He does not change. He is what He is - which is why He is "I Am."
TheKid: Why 3?
Because God is three Persons - not one, two or 50.
Ok, to clarify, why has God always been in a trinity and not more or less? I believe this isn't something we can answer, other than bc God wanted it that way.
thatkidakayoungguy
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1414
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by thatkidakayoungguy »

goingsouth wrote: There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
I agree, I'm starting to get annoyed by it, but then again I have to be careful too.
Just look at the Protestant/Catholic wars (fights) in Ireland. Or the WBC. Utter stupid nonsense! There is a place to rebuke yeah, and I think the WBC is well meaning, but still wrong, but these things are lowering the Church's credibility.
PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Understanding the Trinity

Post by PaulSacramento »

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5? Of course God could have more persons, but why 3? What is so special about 3? Ik that it has a special connotation, kind of like 7, and 3 is sometimes used as a good luck number.

Jesus is called God and is stated to do and be what God is and does.
The HS is called God and is stated to do and be what God is and does.
The father is called God and is sated to do and be what God is and does.

No one or nothing else is called God is stated to do or be what God is or does.


Creation:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be involved in creation.
Salvation:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be able to save.
Judgment and forgiveness:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be able to judge and forgive.

So, there you have it.
Post Reply