Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
crochet1949
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#721

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:08 am

jpbg33 wrote:I am not saying that doing saves us. You are reading that into what I said.

it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. every year they had to sacrifices again because the sins were still there.

there sin was still there, that was why they went to Abraham's bosom when they died not heaven.

Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 
Heb 10:2  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 
Heb 10:3  But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 
Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 


if I am saying doing saves us Jesus is saying keeping His commandments is what makes us love Him.
Jesus Christ came to earth to become the Perfect Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. His shed blood the final blood sacrifice needed.

You seem to have it a little backwards -- keeping His commandments is Because we love Him -- doing that is Not what makes us love Him. "We love Him because He first loved us...."

crochet1949
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#722

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:10 am

RickD wrote:
crochet1949 wrote:
RickD wrote:Hey jpbg,

¿Cuál es tu idioma nativo?
Is that Spanish?
Sí Señora.

Apparently you have a Spanish keyboard or program on your computer.

Spanish is such a Neat language -- started learning some last year, but with a temp instructor.

Gracias Senor

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#723

Post by B. W. » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:11 am

RickD wrote:Bryan,

I wasn't trying to play word games with you. I know you believe we can't lose our salvation. I just wanted you to clarify what you wrote, so nobody would think that you were saying that we can "give back" eternal life. Believe me. The last thing I want is for jpbg to misread you, like he does scripture, and claim you are agreeing with him.

So, please forgiveth me milord. I come to you in sackcloth and ashes. :mrgreen:
Yes, I simply read John 3:36 from Greek, following the Greek word order and wrote a quick translation. I should have worked the translation a bit better, sorry about that.

In John 3:36 the NASB reads: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (NKJV Believe) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

The Word obey has in its basic meaning: not being persuaded at all - or simply means to "resist - as in fight against" for lack for a better word.

Here is a cleaner translation from Greek word order:

John 3:36, The one trusting/believing in the Son has life eternal.

But !! however !! the one (resisting/fighting) the Son shall not see (see as in - experience) this life, but the wrath of God fixed upon him !!!
(Note: the context refers to those mentioned in John 3:19-21 and for those mentioned in John 3:16 this is brought out in verse 34 as being eternally secure)

Look again and read John 3:34 NASB "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure."

"Without measure" implies from the Greek, and Jac can add to this as well, implies - without any limits.

This means, there are no limits or measures needed to stay saved - you cannot work to keep the sealing work of the Holy Spirit safe nor can you toss this away as your own possession because you are now his possession.

Because once His: Romans 8:29 happens like it or not it does, no matter how long we stay in God's woodshed! Try to walk away, He brings you back to Himself. You have God's word on this as it is written in Isaiah 55:11 and 1 Th 5:24 ...

So the entire context and continuity of John chapter three does not teach LYS doctrine from John 3:36

John 3:36 NASB swould better look like this: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life!

But he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him!"

John 3:36 NKJV better read: "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life!

And he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him!"


Just adding a space better helps one see two different types people being mentioned.
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#724

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:15 am

That is what I am saying and that is what I have been saying the whole time. You are saying I'm saying that I am doing to be saved but I am not saying that I am saying I am doing because I am saved.

like Jesus said we love him and because we love him we keep his commandments.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#725

Post by B. W. » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:19 am

What are the commandments you keep jpbg33?
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Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#726

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:31 am

I love God with all my heart and I love every one else as well and I'm able to do his because I am saved. It is not why or how I am saved.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#727

Post by Jac3510 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:34 pm

crochet1949 wrote:
RickD wrote:
crochet1949 wrote:
RickD wrote:Hey jpbg,

¿Cuál es tu idioma nativo?
Is that Spanish?
Sí Señora.

Apparently you have a Spanish keyboard or program on your computer.

Spanish is such a Neat language -- started learning some last year, but with a temp instructor.

Gracias Senor
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#728

Post by B. W. » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:08 pm

jpbg33 wrote:I love God with all my heart and I love every one else as well and I'm able to do his because I am saved. It is not why or how I am saved.
I am glad you answered what you did. With that we can all breathe a sigh of relief. You answered well, however, your last part is confusing. You stated: It is not why or how I am saved...not sure what you mean by this but the answer before this is spot on.

With this here are a few points to consider:

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us." NKJV

If He loved so much to die on a cross then such a love that would let a person just walk away after coming to him is really not love without conditions, is it?

We love because he first loved us (NASB)

Despite our being the Lord's foe before we were saved, Jesus died in our place, paying our price for our sins He bought us with the shed blood of his his own love. That is the price of love he shed abroad in our hearts in those that come to Him.

Again, any love after paying such a price as Jesus paid that would let his own fall away into hell is really not love is it?

There would be a condition to such love - would't there?

How can agape type love have such a condition attached to it that would have us rely on our own selves to keep ourselves saved when before were ever saved - no such works could ever save a person - why now? Do you see a contradiction?

When you realize the grace of God that will not let a person go who has come to him, that changes a person and teaches them how to love others through various lesson needed to mature, refine, and purify a believer in Jesus Christ

I suggest that you please do not answer hastily but take the time ponder what is being revealed here here.

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us." NKJV

...We love because he first loved us NASB

Blessings
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#729

Post by crochet1949 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:02 am

Jac3510 wrote:
crochet1949 wrote:
RickD wrote:
crochet1949 wrote:
RickD wrote:Hey jpbg,

¿Cuál es tu idioma nativo?
Is that Spanish?
Sí Señora.

Apparently you have a Spanish keyboard or program on your computer.

Spanish is such a Neat language -- started learning some last year, but with a temp instructor.

Gracias Senor

I Finally got to listen / watch the video -- my husband doesn't like to hear Spanish -- when you're in America speak English.
But - it was hilarious -- body language with a little bit of Spanish.

Thanks for sharing it.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#730

Post by RickD » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:48 am

Image
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#731

Post by Audie » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:33 pm

That is a ugly cat

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#732

Post by RickD » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:35 pm

Audie wrote:That is a ugly cat
She has an underbite and feline dwarfism. Kinda like you. :lol:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#733

Post by Audie » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:42 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:That is a ugly cat
She has an underbite and feline dwarfism. Kinda like you. :lol:

Oh yeah oh yeah??? Well YOU have a big fat red nose. I heard about that.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#734

Post by crochet1949 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:51 pm

And 'this' has What to do with eternal security -- I just got done watching the 2nd Pres. debate -- grrrrr. Sorta like that cat face.

Hi Audie :)

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#735

Post by Philip » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:34 pm

I just got done watching the 2nd Pres. debate -- grrrrr. Sorta like that cat face.
We don't watch porn, extreme violence - and after tonight - we might have to add presidential debates to that list! It was a bit like watching professional wrestling, only slimier and more low-brow!

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