Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

[bbyrd009]

Not meaning to sound Rude -- but about the Only thing that I'd agree with you on is your comment "I do not know what I am talking about, ok."

but you are not Nicky, crochet; you are an eavesdropper in that conversation, wadr.

thank you for your assessment, however.

You Do realize that this is an open forum -- anyone can join in or not-- at the bottom of pages it tells who is signed in and how many - if any- visitors are 'listening in'.

ah, thought i changed that? anyway, no prob; best barometer i got, i guess
(usually isn't women, bite on that one, though)

aside from Scripture i mean, man, people giving you their take on Scripture? that is a straight fillet, there.

It's perfectly okay to share viewpoints on Bible passages -- various perspectives -- we Can learn from each other. But, rather than say that the other person is Wrong -- it's better to say 'how about This perspective'. That way - the Other person can Always say something like "okay, never thought of it That way" -- Or 'you've got a good point'.

Your phrase "a straight fillet" -- it's a figure of speech, but from what country? Possibly British?

um, i'm a Southern Boy, but raised at various diplomatic postings throughout the world, mostly in the Mideast. "Fillet" is just a thing you do to a fish, to me.

[bbyrd009]

I see were the bible says that a pastor should be a man.

But if a woman started a church and was preaching God's word I do not think she would go to hell for that.

I would not want to go to a church with a woman pastor because biblically they shouldn't be pastors but I do not have a problem with them. I don't think I could vote for a woman pastor either. I will let God work that one out

I'm NOT suggesting that a woman will be going to hell for That. But it IS a Biblical guideline -- and people simply Don't like following those. There are women who are Great public speakers and proclaimers of God's Word -- they go to Women's Retreats to speak to all women's audiences -- they teach / lead Women's Bible Studies.

and there are men who have not the first clue, and should be in prison, and not pulpits, too. Or at least whoever ordained them should be, imo. But we are to let the tares grow with the wheat, lest the wheat get ruined in pulling the tares. they serve a purpose, iow, so let them grow, i guess. i am terrible at this myself, and have trying to pull tares all my life.

[bbyrd009]

I see were the bible says that a pastor should be a man.

But if a woman started a church and was preaching God's word I do not think she would go to hell for that.

I would not want to go to a church with a woman pastor because biblically they shouldn't be pastors but I do not have a problem with them. I don't think I could vote for a woman pastor either. I will let God work that one out

I'm NOT suggesting that a woman will be going to hell for That. But it IS a Biblical guideline -- and people simply Don't like following those. There are women who are Great public speakers and proclaimers of God's Word -- they go to Women's Retreats to speak to all women's audiences -- they teach / lead Women's Bible Studies.

I used to think this way too but consider this biblical viewpoint. The church at Corinth had many problems Paul was addressing in his letter to them,it was a church of chaos that had many problems and one problem was women talking during the church service disrupting it,asking their husbands questions,etc during the church service interrupting it so Paul was just telling women to be quite in the church and do not interrupt the church service and he was not talking about preaching/ministering in church or being a pastor,he just told women to be quite and keep silent and wait until you get home to ask questions,don't do it during the church service because you're disrupting it while there is preaching going on. Go to 1st Corinthians chapter 1 and read the little paragraph that is right before you start reading the 1st chapter and see all of the problems the church at Corinth had.

recognize that that is a parable about an aspect of yourself, imo, in the process of becoming a god, and see that God has Seven Spirits, and there are Seven Churches, and that you are not a one-dimensional person, people are complicated, and may be said to be comprised of God's Seven Spirits, meaning that there are multiple facets of understanding, and each of the addresses to each Church address an issue that you will have to overcome.

[crochet1949]

First of all you have not met Jesus in the air.

because "i am still here, right?"

ergo, you know, for a fact, that there is no possible way i could have met Christ in the air. even though i have never denied that, the Book being God~Breathed, and therefore Living, might have other valid interpretations. Mine is not exclusive. "This passage means this, therefore put your mind at rest, and feel confident in refuting every other interpretation" is a thing sheep who have a pastor assume, and i notice that often the pastor would not even approve.

So see what you will see, and say what you want to say. I did not demand that you accept my belief there, jp.

And, no, there is no Biblical way that You or anyone Else will be meeting Christ in the air and still be here to tell about it.
No one comes back from being 'taken up' to meet Christ in the air.

Now there Is record of - in the Old Testament -- either Elijah or Elisha was 'taken' and seen no more. But he was Not taken up and met Christ in the air. He simply vanished from where he was.

Now -- you might have Dreamed that that happened. Or had some vision of some kind. Our mind works in mysterious ways as to what we dream. I've had some very vivid dreams -- when I woke up -- I had to realize that I was - in fact - dreaming. Back then - I read a lot of mystery / medical novels and once in a while I'd dream about the story contents.

And sometimes people have mental conditions that result in their 'seeing things' that are not really happening. And some medications can have that affect.

So - now you have some of My 'interpretations' of what Might have happened with You.

[crochet1949]

but you are not Nicky, crochet; you are an eavesdropper in that conversation, wadr.

thank you for your assessment, however.

You Do realize that this is an open forum -- anyone can join in or not-- at the bottom of pages it tells who is signed in and how many - if any- visitors are 'listening in'.

ah, thought i changed that? anyway, no prob; best barometer i got, i guess
(usually isn't women, bite on that one, though)

aside from Scripture i mean, man, people giving you their take on Scripture? that is a straight fillet, there.

It's perfectly okay to share viewpoints on Bible passages -- various perspectives -- we Can learn from each other. But, rather than say that the other person is Wrong -- it's better to say 'how about This perspective'. That way - the Other person can Always say something like "okay, never thought of it That way" -- Or 'you've got a good point'.

Your phrase "a straight fillet" -- it's a figure of speech, but from what country? Possibly British?

um, i'm a Southern Boy, but raised at various diplomatic postings throughout the world, mostly in the Mideast. "Fillet" is just a thing you do to a fish, to me.

Your last paragraph explains a great deal. A person does fillet a fish, yes. Deboning it.
The diplomatic posts throughout the world --mostly in the Mideast.

[jpbg33]

bbyrd009 I have not talked with anyone like you on this subject.

I was not even referring to Jesus being in the flesh either.

I was just wondering if you believed Jesus actually died on a cross since you do not take the bible literally.

What I am saying is that you can not tell me that the bible is literal in one part but not in another because how do you know if either part is literal or not. You have to take it all literal or all not literal and if you take it all as not literal then you are not saved.

Jesus explained the eating his flesh at the last super so no need to bring that up again.

When Jesus broke the bread he said this is my body and the wine was his blood and that we should do this until He comes again.

[crochet1949]

I see were the bible says that a pastor should be a man.

But if a woman started a church and was preaching God's word I do not think she would go to hell for that.

I would not want to go to a church with a woman pastor because biblically they shouldn't be pastors but I do not have a problem with them. I don't think I could vote for a woman pastor either. I will let God work that one out

I'm NOT suggesting that a woman will be going to hell for That. But it IS a Biblical guideline -- and people simply Don't like following those. There are women who are Great public speakers and proclaimers of God's Word -- they go to Women's Retreats to speak to all women's audiences -- they teach / lead Women's Bible Studies.

I used to think this way too but consider this biblical viewpoint. The church at Corinth had many problems Paul was addressing in his letter to them,it was a church of chaos that had many problems and one problem was women talking during the church service disrupting it,asking their husbands questions,etc during the church service interrupting it so Paul was just telling women to be quite in the church and do not interrupt the church service and he was not talking about preaching/ministering in church or being a pastor,he just told women to be quite and keep silent and wait until you get home to ask questions,don't do it during the church service because you're disrupting it while there is preaching going on. Go to 1st Corinthians chapter 1 and read the little paragraph that is right before you start reading the 1st chapter and see all of the problems the church at Corinth had.

recognize that that is a parable about an aspect of yourself, imo, in the process of becoming a god, and see that God has Seven Spirits, and there are Seven Churches, and that you are not a one-dimensional person, people are complicated, and may be said to be comprised of God's Seven Spirits, meaning that there are multiple facets of understanding, and each of the addresses to each Church address an issue that you will have to overcome.

Between your quote marks -- where to even begin -- you're talking about the 7 churches in Asia Minor in the first several chapters of Revelation. The seven churches -- various good points and negative things about the individual churches. Do we see any of Our churches Today in those same situations. Churches are made up of People -- we all have our personalities -- God wants us to work together to build the church -- first spiritually and then with more believers. And, yes, we All have varying degrees of understanding God's Word. We Are to be growing, maturing Christians. Those churches back Then had problems as do churches Today. We can learn from them.

We are NOT in the process of becoming God. That section of Scripture is not in the form Of parables -- there Are parables in the Gospels.

[bbyrd009]

Not sure What conversation you're referring to , but, I Do know what 'no problem' means.

The subject of the rapture -- you brought it up -- it's a term Not found in Scripture , but it is referring to a future event in history, when Jesus Christ is going to collect all the born-again believers -- all of His Children -- in the air -- in the twinkling of an eye. As per 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:1-11 --- in other words -- the Church -- will be taken out of this world and be with Christ.

oh, my pardon, but i thought the Church was supposed to already not be "in the world," even though the Est'd church most certainly is, so wadr, i will keep my understanding, for now, and you are welcome to yours, ok.

The only one's remaining Here will be unbelievers. This event has Not happened yet. And Scripture Also tells us that No one knows When it will take place. Only the Father in heaven knows.

yet at the same time, the Word, the Pneuma, and the Kingdom, are all herenow, and you might just be reading that as literally as you wish, and maybe have not yet seen that "When it will take place" is when you find Love; that being, when you are ready. So indeed, only the Father knows when.

And the Only source Of this information Is the Bible. Even though there are those who don't believe in it. Because there Are those who feel that if the term is not used then it won't happen. It simply refers to the 'up-gathering' of believers. And it will happen very suddenly -- so that no one will be able to 'see it coming' and decide Then to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.

yes, it happens in the twinkling of an eye, alright. And

"...every knee will bow, and every tongue confess, that Christ is Lord."

And it Is different than the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ to earth. Because then He will literally be standing on the earth and will Be Here for 1,000 yrs.

you claim to be the Body of Christ in one breath--and can even read that...um, Cornelius, was it? collected Jesus' carcass, and not the word for "body" there, although you have to dig for it now, ask Lex iow, and then follow the Strong's links, and if you still don't see "carcass," keep looking, because even Strong's is corrupted now--yet you are looking for Christ's Bodily Return. ok.

How do you reconcile this hypocrisy, wadr?

[bbyrd009]

bbyrdoo9 Forget about all that. for now.

You do not wont to take the bible literally.

Here is my question to you did Jesus die on the cross.

you accuse me of not wanting to take the Bible literally, yet when i ask you about conundrums associated with this perspective, i get no answers. If you want to take the Book literally, why are you not eating christ's Flesh, and drinking His Blood (distilled wine), like a good little cannibal?

Here is my question to you did Jesus die on the cross.

didn't i just answer this? on this page, right above? directly, literally, and spiritually? what more are you asking for, now?

[bbyrd009]

>

O yaw one other thing do you believe Jesus died on a cross?

here you are asking me a question because, i am guessing, 1) you have had interactions in the past with people bearing a similar message, who have stupidly said something along the lines of "the Crucifixion was a lie" or "it was a hooey, all a story," etc, instead of coming to you where you are at, and suggesting that it might have been allegory, and you nor i have any proof otherwise.

so i will tell you that personally, i serve a Risen Lord, and that yes, i believe Christ died on a Cross, for us, but 2) you are also asking this, intimating that if i do not answer in the approved manner, and confirm that, essentially, "Christ has come in the flesh," i can safely be dismissed, by you at least. And so--with a literal understanding of that passage, rather than a more spiritual one, that cannot manifest from someone's mouth, but rather must be witnessed in their fruit, works unto rebound (repentance)--you are, wadr, easily deceived, as all i have to do is lie to you, if i want, and then i am good to go, as long as i talk like you, in your approved manner, and my sheep-suit stays intact.

You are asking me if you can trust me, jp. Now should i lie, and say "yes," like a pastor (wadr), or tell you the truth, and say "of course not!?" Spirits can lie to you, jp, and must be known by their fruit, same as people.

Anyone who says they know does not yet know as they ought

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009 I have not talked with anyone like you on this subject.

I was not even referring to Jesus being in the flesh either.

I was just wondering if you believed Jesus actually died on a cross since you do not take the bible literally.

What I am saying is that you can not tell me that the bible is literal in one part but not in another because how do you know if either part is literal or not. You have to take it all literal or all not literal and if you take it all as not literal then you are not saved.

Jesus explained the eating his flesh at the last super so no need to bring that up again.

When Jesus broke the bread he said this is my body and the wine was his blood and that we should do this until He comes again.

look, as above, so below, right? The Book is a living Thing, and passages have more than one, static, dead, interpretation, that comes ...by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word, which is of course pointless if you are to be physically caught up in the Air (Pneuma, Word, Dabhar) to be with some physical manifestation of Christ, even though you are the Body of Christ. Read what you will read, and find love when you are ready.

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009 I have not talked with anyone like you on this subject.

I was not even referring to Jesus being in the flesh either.

I was just wondering if you believed Jesus actually died on a cross since you do not take the bible literally.

What I am saying is that you can not tell me that the bible is literal in one part but not in another because how do you know if either part is literal or not. You have to take it all literal or all not literal and if you take it all as not literal then you are not saved.

Jesus explained the eating his flesh at the last super so no need to bring that up again.

When Jesus broke the bread he said this is my body and the wine was his blood and that we should do this until He comes again.

look, as above, so below, right? The Book is a living Thing, and passages have more than one, static, dead, interpretation, that comes ...by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word, which is of course pointless if you are to be physically caught up in the Air (Pneuma, Word, Dabhar) to be with some physical manifestation of Christ, even though you are the Body of Christ

When Jesus broke the bread he said this is my body and the wine was his blood and that we should do this until He comes again.

which of course promptly got made in a ritual, just like our rituals of baptism, and not understood to mean "get all of Christ all the way in you, digest Him" just like our ritual water baptism ignores "immerse yourself in this, completely."

we seek ways to make room for God in our lives, rather than making room for our lives in God, iow.

[bbyrd009]

so, why do i have to hit "submit" only once, sometimes, but twice, at other times? hmm.

[bbyrd009]

I see were the bible says that a pastor should be a man.

But if a woman started a church and was preaching God's word I do not think she would go to hell for that.

I would not want to go to a church with a woman pastor because biblically they shouldn't be pastors but I do not have a problem with them. I don't think I could vote for a woman pastor either. I will let God work that one out

I'm NOT suggesting that a woman will be going to hell for That. But it IS a Biblical guideline -- and people simply Don't like following those. There are women who are Great public speakers and proclaimers of God's Word -- they go to Women's Retreats to speak to all women's audiences -- they teach / lead Women's Bible Studies.

I used to think this way too but consider this biblical viewpoint. The church at Corinth had many problems Paul was addressing in his letter to them,it was a church of chaos that had many problems and one problem was women talking during the church service disrupting it,asking their husbands questions,etc during the church service interrupting it so Paul was just telling women to be quite in the church and do not interrupt the church service and he was not talking about preaching/ministering in church or being a pastor,he just told women to be quite and keep silent and wait until you get home to ask questions,don't do it during the church service because you're disrupting it while there is preaching going on. Go to 1st Corinthians chapter 1 and read the little paragraph that is right before you start reading the 1st chapter and see all of the problems the church at Corinth had.

recognize that that is a parable about an aspect of yourself, imo, in the process of becoming a god, and see that God has Seven Spirits, and there are Seven Churches, and that you are not a one-dimensional person, people are complicated, and may be said to be comprised of God's Seven Spirits, meaning that there are multiple facets of understanding, and each of the addresses to each Church address an issue that you will have to overcome.

Between your quote marks -- where to even begin -- you're talking about the 7 churches in Asia Minor in the first several chapters of Revelation. The seven churches -- various good points and negative things about the individual churches. Do we see any of Our churches Today in those same situations. Churches are made up of People -- we all have our personalities -- God wants us to work together to build the church -- first spiritually and then with more believers. And, yes, we All have varying degrees of understanding God's Word. We Are to be growing, maturing Christians. Those churches back Then had problems as do churches Today. We can learn from them.

We are NOT in the process of becoming God. That section of Scripture is not in the form Of parables -- there Are parables in the Gospels.

ok. so then know what you need to know, and see what you will see, no prob.

[jpbg33]

jpbg33 wrote this
bbyrd009 I have not talked with anyone like you on this subject.

I was not even referring to Jesus being in the flesh either.

I was just wondering if you believed Jesus actually died on a cross since you do not take the bible literally.

What I am saying is that you can not tell me that the bible is literal in one part but not in another because how do you know if either part is literal or not. You have to take it all literal or all not literal and if you take it all as not literal then you are not saved.

Jesus explained the eating his flesh at the last super so no need to bring that up again.

When Jesus broke the bread he said this is my body and the wine was his blood and that we should do this until He comes again.

can you not read? I did not ask you that question again I was just explaining why I asked it.

Jesus said the bread was his flesh.

the bible only makes sense if we are caught up in the air. We are not Jesus we are representing Jesus on earth.

If you see Christians it is the same thing as seeing Jesus because if Jesus was here He would be doing the same things as the Christians.

We are not actually Jesus. When we read the bible we must read it with common sense and using common sense we know we will met him in the air.