Philip wrote:Philip: Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed?K: Because they're moved by the Spirit of God.
But that's what someone CLAIMS. But unless there is a miraculous confirmation, how are those WITHOUT this supposed modern day gift to know this is of the Lord? Because the person speaking or claiming to interpret SAYS so? What if they are lying? What if the "spirit" leading them is not of the Lord? These are important questions/issues!
Well, when something they prophesise about turns up wrong, then maybe they should be stoned as a false prophet according to the Law.
Philip wrote:Philip: To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God.K: The written word of God for which there seem to be as much subjective opinion.
But we KNOW what the words of God say and that they are from the Lord - that's very key. This is not the case with those speaking in tongues.
Isn't God creator of all? I would have thought that this is true of the tongue as much as our eyes and ears.
So then, why not?
More seriously though, if someone interprets the words of tongues wrong and such doesn't come to pass,
then the question is just whether we should stone them both or just the interpreter...?
Philip wrote:Philip? And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.What, the same proof that Atheists demand of Scripture which you believe is true?
No, the PROOF determination written in Scripture: In fact, Scripture reveals that this is to be a concern: "You may say to yourself, "How can we recognize a word that the LORD has not spoken?". If a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it." (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
Jeremiah 14:14: "Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds."
1 John 4:1: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
Dang it! You left out the most important part:
- "If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful[a] to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death" (Deut 13:1-5)
Philip wrote:Isn't it strange that between the last OT prophet and Christ, there was nearly 400 years of silence from the Lord. But many church services are filled with supposed prophetic utterances from God - just enough to get in the last song before the second service . And unless the utterances are specific and testable, where does that leave most of the people in attendance, if not to have to totally trust that what was said was from the Lord? That's an awful lot of trust to put in another human being without some absolute ability to discern the truth.
Yes, you're right.
It isn't really a light-hearted issue to joke with.
Such removes the focus of Christ and replaces such with men and women, and a what's in it for me spiritualism.
More often then not it seems just a Christian version of divination only they're given a pedestal in a charismatic church from which to play their game.