KJV only version that's inspired?

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RickD
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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#46

Post by RickD » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 pm

Nicki wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:38 pm
RickD wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:32 am
Nicki,

If we can put your other points aside for the moment, and focus on one thing you brought up, because it gets to the very heart of my disagreement with Comfort's false gospel.
Nicki wrote:
Thanks - I think that article's splitting hairs in a way though. Jesus' first recorded preaching in Mark included 'turn from your sins';
Where specifically, did Jesus preach by saying, "turn from your sins"?

He was in Galilee, so was speaking to Jews who were already believers in God. (I was reading from the NLT there, which was the version I had to hand - the NIV renders it as 'repent'.) I think I see where you're going there but that article talks about how we believers are all still sinners, and seems to say it's not even possible to turn from your sins. It also asks how someone can turn from their sins (and stop sinning) before they are even saved - that is, in the moments before they accept Christ. Surely though, if someone's attitude is that they want to accept Christ, they will want to turn from their sins - and how much sinning can they do in the moments between repenting of sin and being saved? y:-/
I'm sorry, I meant where in the Bible. What verse in Mark?

The point I'm trying to make, is that the word translated as repent, doesn't mean what Comfort says it means. In Mark 1:15, the word translated as repent, DOES NOT mean, "turn from your sins", as Comfort says. The word translated as repent, Metanoeō, in the context of Mark 1:15, means a change of mind. It does not mean, "forsaking sin", and does not mean, "turn from sin".

Maybe this article will help:
https://www.returntotheword.com/Is-Repe ... -Salvation
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#47

Post by Philip » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:56 pm

It was never the turning from sins that saved anyone - it was WHO they turned to begin following that saves them - as a new Believer does a 180 from following only the whims of self, to becoming a committed follower of Christ. Because the sins of a new Believer - and of all Believers - which includes past, present, future and even sins we are unaware of - are ALL of our sins are wiped out once we've turned toward Christ! As ALL Believers will continue to sin as long as they live, they'll never be able to turn from all sin. But they CAN turn toward Christ Who is merciful to forgive all of their sins, which were covered through faith in Christ and the price HE paid.

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.” - Acts 3:19 (NIV)

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#48

Post by Philip » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:57 pm

Rick is correct. If we have all forsaken sin, then how come we still do it?

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#49

Post by abelcainsbrother » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:23 pm

I agree about what the word repent means,It means to change your mind to think like God would have you think,instead of your own opinion,view.It means having a willingness to tell God I want to change my mind to the way you would have me understand,instead of the way I think about things.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#50

Post by Nicki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:33 pm

RickD wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 pm
Nicki wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:38 pm
RickD wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:32 am
Nicki,

If we can put your other points aside for the moment, and focus on one thing you brought up, because it gets to the very heart of my disagreement with Comfort's false gospel.
Nicki wrote:
Thanks - I think that article's splitting hairs in a way though. Jesus' first recorded preaching in Mark included 'turn from your sins';
Where specifically, did Jesus preach by saying, "turn from your sins"?

He was in Galilee, so was speaking to Jews who were already believers in God. (I was reading from the NLT there, which was the version I had to hand - the NIV renders it as 'repent'.) I think I see where you're going there but that article talks about how we believers are all still sinners, and seems to say it's not even possible to turn from your sins. It also asks how someone can turn from their sins (and stop sinning) before they are even saved - that is, in the moments before they accept Christ. Surely though, if someone's attitude is that they want to accept Christ, they will want to turn from their sins - and how much sinning can they do in the moments between repenting of sin and being saved? y:-/
I'm sorry, I meant where in the Bible. What verse in Mark?

The point I'm trying to make, is that the word translated as repent, doesn't mean what Comfort says it means. In Mark 1:15, the word translated as repent, DOES NOT mean, "turn from your sins", as Comfort says. The word translated as repent, Metanoeō, in the context of Mark 1:15, means a change of mind. It does not mean, "forsaking sin", and does not mean, "turn from sin".

Maybe this article will help:
https://www.returntotheword.com/Is-Repe ... -Salvation
Yes, I meant Mark 1:15 :) Maybe the NLT has a Reformed bent - I grabbed my NLT New Believer's Bible because I knew it had a gospel presentation, among other things, at the front - step one of responding to God is given as turning from sin. I seem to have mainly heard a Reformed version of the gospel through my life, even though the doctrine of predestination has definitely not gone along with it. It just seems to me that if someone's making a point of telling people they don't have to forsake sin, turn from sin, be sorry for sin or whatever, they're saying sin doesn't matter - you can just change your mind about God and who Jesus is, accept salvation and then carry on doing what you want.

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#51

Post by RickD » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:26 am

Nicki wrote:
It just seems to me that if someone's making a point of telling people they don't have to forsake sin, turn from sin, be sorry for sin or whatever, they're saying sin doesn't matter - you can just change your mind about God and who Jesus is, accept salvation and then carry on doing what you want.
I don't see anybody saying that Christians shouldn't forsake sin, turn from sin, or be sorry for sin. In fact, the Bible tells us that we should forsake sin.

But what I'm saying is that while scripture tells a Christian to turn from sin, scripture does not make "turning from sin" a condition of salvation.

Once someone makes those things a condition for salvation, as Comfort has done, then he's saying that salvation isn't by Grace through faith alone. He is now saying that we must work, in order to gain salvation. And that's a false, damning gospel.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#52

Post by Philip » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:42 am

Rick: But what I'm saying is that while scripture tells a Christian to turn from sin, scripture does not make "turning from sin" a condition of salvation.
In fact, it is the turning to CHRIST that precedes turning from sin. And the desire to follow Christ and the Holy Spirit bestowed at first faith spur the heart and mind of a new Believer (and of ALL Believers) to turn from sin, to desire to resist it. So, a person is clearly saved WHILE STILL IN THE MIDST OF THEIR SIN! God immediately saves people where they already are in that moment of first belief and commitment to following Him. And so the turning from sin is a life-long sanctification process, although we are already forgiven for all sins at the moment of salvation.

Course, the Apostle Paul tells us, despite even his best desires and efforts, his flesh (sinful nature) had a grip upon him as well:

Romans 7: "21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."
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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#53

Post by Nicki » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm

RickD wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:26 am
Nicki wrote:
It just seems to me that if someone's making a point of telling people they don't have to forsake sin, turn from sin, be sorry for sin or whatever, they're saying sin doesn't matter - you can just change your mind about God and who Jesus is, accept salvation and then carry on doing what you want.
I don't see anybody saying that Christians shouldn't forsake sin, turn from sin, or be sorry for sin. In fact, the Bible tells us that we should forsake sin.

But what I'm saying is that while scripture tells a Christian to turn from sin, scripture does not make "turning from sin" a condition of salvation.

Once someone makes those things a condition for salvation, as Comfort has done, then he's saying that salvation isn't by Grace through faith alone. He is now saying that we must work, in order to gain salvation. And that's a false, damning gospel.

Maybe that's true that turning from sin isn't a condition of salvation - I just don't think it's a damning gospel. It was a while back that I was saved, but I'm pretty sure there was some element of it in the prayer I prayed. Does that mean I'm not saved? I can't imagine God saying, 'Ah, sorry, but you mentioned turning from sin in your 'salvation' prayer so you're not really saved, even though you always thought you were because you trusted in Christ.'
To me turning from sin is purely an attitude at the time of accepting Christ - it's after that the person can start living it out.

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#54

Post by Nessa » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:21 am

I think it was brought up that a Christian can't actually turn from their sins before they are saved.

I don't know if I believe that's true. Time and time again, God told Israel to turn from their sins and often they failed but not always

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#55

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 am

Nicki wrote:
Maybe that's true that turning from sin isn't a condition of salvation - I just don't think it's a damning gospel.
Turning from sin, and Comfort's definition of repenting, are something added to being saved by grace, through faith in Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Making "turning from sin" a part of salvation, means that one would rely on the act of turning from sin, to be saved. That means that salvation wouldn't be by grace, through faith/trusting in Christ. It would make our works, turning from sin, necessary for salvation. And I say that any gospel based on works, is a false gospel.
Nicki wrote:
It was a while back that I was saved, but I'm pretty sure there was some element of it in the prayer I prayed. Does that mean I'm not saved? I can't imagine God saying, 'Ah, sorry, but you mentioned turning from sin in your 'salvation' prayer so you're not really saved, even though you always thought you were because you trusted in Christ.'
Are you saved because you trusted in Christ, or because you prayed a salvation prayer?
Nicki wrote:
To me turning from sin is purely an attitude at the time of accepting Christ - it's after that the person can start living it out.
I agree! When we are saved, the Holy Spirit begins to work in us. When we grow in Christ, we want to turn from sin. And it shows in the way we live.

The gospel is simple. Trust in Christ, and have eternal life. Period.

Continuing on with Ephesians 2:10:
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Notice that it says that we are created in Christ to do good works.
"Good works" are not the roots from which salvation grows, but the fruit that God intends it to bear. God has not saved us because of our works (vv. 8-9), but He has saved us to do good works (v. 10). God saves us by faith for good works.
https://www.planobiblechapel.org/tcon/n ... esians.htm
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Nicki (Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:15 am)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#56

Post by Nessa » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Trust in Christ and be saved?

By that simple gospel summary, we shall see Mormons in heaven

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#57

Post by Nicki » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:17 am

RickD wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 am
Nicki wrote:
It was a while back that I was saved, but I'm pretty sure there was some element of it in the prayer I prayed. Does that mean I'm not saved? I can't imagine God saying, 'Ah, sorry, but you mentioned turning from sin in your 'salvation' prayer so you're not really saved, even though you always thought you were because you trusted in Christ.'
Are you saved because you trusted in Christ, or because you prayed a salvation prayer?
Both, I suppose - the prayer expressed the trust.

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#58

Post by RickD » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:02 am

Nessa wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:47 pm
Trust in Christ and be saved?

By that simple gospel summary, we shall see Mormons in heaven
As long as they trust in the correct Christ, then I agree! But the christ of Mormonism IS NOT the same Christ.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#59

Post by RickD » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:29 am

Nicki wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:17 am
RickD wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 am
Nicki wrote:
It was a while back that I was saved, but I'm pretty sure there was some element of it in the prayer I prayed. Does that mean I'm not saved? I can't imagine God saying, 'Ah, sorry, but you mentioned turning from sin in your 'salvation' prayer so you're not really saved, even though you always thought you were because you trusted in Christ.'
Are you saved because you trusted in Christ, or because you prayed a salvation prayer?
Both, I suppose - the prayer expressed the trust.
Is that your final answer?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: KJV only version that's inspired?

#60

Post by Philip » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:15 pm

She was saved because her heart and mind were of desire to place her faith in Christ - and her prayer was a result of that so placed faith. The prayer AND the exact wording are secondary and apparently a result of her heart and mind's desire to commit herself to Christ. So, it wasn't the prayer.

Look at the saved thief crucified alongside Jesus:

First he mocks as well:

Matthew 27: "43 He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him. For he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”
44 And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way."

The saved thief's heart and mind suddenly have changed:

Luke 23: "39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him,[d] saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

The saved thief's prayer was far from eloquent or traditional (for us) - he admitted his sin before God / Jesus asked Jesus to "remember" him, while also acknowledging Jesus deity in his reference to "your kingdom."

And that's it - no magic prayer - the thief's heart and mind had changed to recognize Jesus as God, Whom had a Kingdom he desired to be part of - which he requested. Note also, he COULD have merely said these words falsely - "just in case Jesus wasn't merely some fraud." But that would have been insincere and resulted in hell. So, it obviously wasn't the words or their supposed eloquence.
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