Is being an atheist irrational?

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B. W.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by B. W. »

Some great points being made here to you Justhuman...

I am currently in Dallas texas on a buisness trip so I have not too much down time til today...so sorry for the delay...

You mentioned this...
Justhuman wrote:...I think you forget that for me, as an atheist, there is no God, so I am not bound to God and cannot reject God. I am 'free' to ponder about alternatives, adapt to what scientific discoveries are made, 'choose whatever suits best possible'. Of course that is also bound to (some strict) rules, but whithin those rules there is at least some freedom of movement. And who knows, at the end of all those discoveries, maybe God awaits there, smiling over such human foolishness.

And miracles are only miracles if they are unexplainable (about how on earth is that possible!). If God is behind those miracles than it is 'just' God doing His kind of unmiraculous omnipotent thing (at a moment and a place He chooses fit to do so). I know a few people who would have wished A miracle didn't end their live or the live of their loved one. So, please don't introduce that kind of God-thing in this irrationality discussion.
Several points

First - the miracle of creation is clearly seen and felt and studied and yet athesim contends that creation cannot be fully explained ... interesting...

Secondly - yes God's smiles over such foolishness. And, yes, you can reject God as do all athesit, for one to be in that camp is to reject all notions of God due to the supremacy of human reason... y:-?
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Hortator »

But for real though, I miss Jac. Once you're a part of a forum this long, you're basically here forever (he was the 2nd user to make an account here after Rich, who owns the place) but I have a funny feeling he won't. :crying:
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Philip »

Horator: But for real though, I miss Jac. Once you're a part of a forum this long, you're basically here forever (he was the 2nd user to make an account here after Rich, who owns the place) but I have a funny feeling he won't.
It IS sad and quite upsetting. But it's also HIS own decision to stay away. He was treated more than fairly. A LOT of patience was shown. And I can tell you that all of the mods here have a deep appreciation for all of the illumination and insights he provided, all these years.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Kurieuo »

Hortator wrote:But for real though, I miss Jac. Once you're a part of a forum this long, you're basically here forever (he was the 2nd user to make an account here after Rich, who owns the place) but I have a funny feeling he won't. :crying:
Actually Jac extends back to the old board even. I have the belief that the spiritual bonding in Christ is thicker than blood, or whatever it is in this instance.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

Ok, who's Jac? y#-o
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

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Philip wrote:It IS sad and quite upsetting. But it's also HIS own decision to stay away. He was treated more than fairly. A LOT of patience was shown. And I can tell you that all of the mods here have a deep appreciation for all of the illumination and insights he provided, all these years.
Yeah, I miss the guy, too. Do you know with certainty that he's aware that the ban was temporary? It wasn't specifically stated that way.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Justhuman wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Can't you see that in order to reject God you are having to imagine a mysterious truth we don't yet know about,because of a lack of our knowledge,in otherwords imagining an alternative universe other than the reality we live in and know about and understand? It is normal for those who reject God to imagine up things that go outside of our known knowledge in order to reject God.I don't think atheists realize they do it,but they do and it is noticeable to those paying attention.

Why must you make up and assume there is some unknown truth out there that could one day be realized that goes against everything we know about in the reality we live in?It is common to see atheists imagining up alternative truths out there that are not yet realized in order to reject God.It is a state of limbo they remain in and it is even worse for them when it comes to science who atheists look up to instead of God for their answers because science is neutral when it comes to God and all they do is focus on understanding our universe as is and do not really address the question of how or why it got here.

I mean sure there are atheistic scientists that atheists look up to that put out these assumptions about how the universe got here but it is not peer-reviewed science and is just one man's opinion and it requires more faith to believe than to believe any miracle in the bible because God can do miracles easily if he chooses to.

So that they put their faith in non-peer-reviewed science all the while trying to get us to understand how important it is to have peer-reviewed science and because it does not address God they point this out and remove God from the discussion,because science does not address God,but only focuses on our universe itself and understanding it.
I think you forget that for me, as an atheist, there is no God, so I am not bound to God and cannot reject God. I am 'free' to ponder about alternatives, adapt to what scientific discoveries are made, 'choose whatever suits best possible'. Of course that is also bound to (some strict) rules, but whithin those rules there is at least some freedom of movement. And who knows, at the end of all those discoveries, maybe God awaits there, smiling over such human foolishness.

And miracles are only miracles if they are unexplainable (about how on earth is that possible!). If God is behind those miracles than it is 'just' God doing His kind of unmiraculous omnipotent thing (at a moment and a place He chooses fit to do so). I know a few people who would have wished A miracle didn't end their live or the live of their loved one. So, please don't introduce that kind of God-thing in this irrationality discussion.

No I understand that you don't believe in God and you have the freedom to choose not to believe in God.But I was just pointing out to you how atheists tend to imagine up things that go outside our known world/universe when they reject God. It is like they wait patiently for an answer that will solve everything,yet it never comes.

You claim it is hard to accept miracles but yet are forced by your atheism to accept things that require alot more faith to believe than to just accept the fact that God can do miracles.I know that you'll claim that you don't necessarily know how this vast universe got here but you are focred to accept that nothing caused it,which requires far,far more faith to believe. It ius not hard at all to believe God can do miracles if he chooses to because we read about them althroughout the bible.

But you seem to have a problem with miracles God can do because people don't always get a miracle. However God is honest with us about death and we know why we have death and sorrow in this world.Read Romans 8:22-23 for an example. It is not like we don't know why we have death and suffering in our world but what you are overlooking is that death is just the beginning of our lives when we die. So how long do you think you will live? 70-80 years? So how can you compare 70-80 years of pain and sorrow to eternity? All suffering is but a blip of time and God will one day set things right and it will be worth anything we suffered through in this life. But with atheism all you have is death to look forwad to. There is no hope in it and no reason to accept a world view that you have no evidence is true and yet willingly choose to reject God based on it when all it ultimately leads to is death.

But at the same time you are still forced to accept miracles that God can do easily to believe that nothing can create and cause universes and without any proof or evidence.No offense,but it is a dumb decision on your part to reject God because you have no evidence or proof atheism is true,noway to know you've made the correct choice while you overlook massive amounts of evidence Christianity is true,and yet even if we did'nt have evidence Christianity is true. We have nothing to suffer if we were somehow wrong about believing in Jesus.

I mean salvation is free because of what Jesus did for us and yet nothing would happen to me if I was somehow wrong,but yet you will be in trouble if you are wrong,so just based on odds of winning alone I have made the smarter decision because I do not suffer if I'm wrong like you will. And yet like I said you are basing your life on a shot in the dark having no evidence at all atheism is true and correct. So that it is not a wise decision at all to be an atheist. But yes,you are still free to choose for yourself and suffer the consequences of being wrong,unlike me. Just know that any suffering you do will not just be for 70-80 years,but eternity, so choose wisely.

Want it dead or alive.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

If God really exists, I think He will judge a human based on what he/she did in his/her life, whether one has been a good and kind person. Did you live a peacefull live? Did you live a loving life? Did you live a kind and caring life? Did you live a respectfull life? All that trancends any kind of believe, or disbelieve. Do you really think God cares whether someone believes in Him or even 'worships' Him? Like he thrives on that? What's more important, to believe in God or being a peacefull, kind, caring, respectfull person? (Not that I'm all that!).
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Kurieuo »

I believe God will judge too, in fact, that's a crucial first part of the Christian message. The question is JH, have you ever been mean? Not cared? Lied? Hated? Stolen? Or worse? How much bad must God ignore?
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

I'm guilty to at least once of all the things you listed (but not that 'worse' kind). Who hasn't? Even if it 'only' was stealing cookies from the cookies jar and say 'no' when asked for it. And even then, on certain occasions or moments in once life, things do 'happen'. It's not those incidents that makes up the judgement, but what you did on all those non-incidents.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

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Justhuman wrote:If God really exists, I think He will judge a human based on what he/she did in his/her life, whether one has been a good and kind person. Did you live a peacefull live? Did you live a loving life? Did you live a kind and caring life? Did you live a respectfull life? All that trancends any kind of believe, or disbelieve.
However, all fall short of this list as know one really can live or does live like this 100 percent of the time. Have you failed in in of these?
Justhuman wrote:Do you really think God cares whether someone believes in Him or even 'worships' Him? Like he thrives on that? What's more important, to believe in God or being a peacefull, kind, caring, respectfull person? (Not that I'm all that!).
Yes, do you want people to trust you? Does your spouse have faith in you? Does that mean anything to you?

If one has faith then they will not going whoring around. To go whoring around is a sign that one does not trust the one who came and sent to rescue. If there is no trust, then why on earth would God want an eternal neighbor like that who whores around to live next door to? No matter the little good they do will not erase the whoring attitude that justifies ones self-centeredness.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

B. W. wrote:... If one has faith then they will not going whoring around. To go whoring around is a sign that one does not trust the one who came and sent to rescue. If there is no trust, then why on earth would God want an eternal neighbor like that who whores around to live next door to? No matter the little good they do will not erase the whoring attitude that justifies ones self-centeredness.
I'm not quite sure what you want to say with that, but 'whoring around' doesn't sound good.
Some people stray around, lost, searching, unknowing. That doesn't make them bad, though I think you mean something else.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

B. W. wrote:
Justhuman wrote:If God really exists, I think He will judge a human based on what he/she did in his/her life, whether one has been a good and kind person. Did you live a peacefull live? Did you live a loving life? Did you live a kind and caring life? Did you live a respectfull life? All that trancends any kind of believe, or disbelieve.
However, all fall short of this list as know one really can live or does live like this 100 percent of the time. Have you failed in in of these?
It's not a complete or definitive list, but more 'intentional rules for positive living'. One can fail in one or more of those 'categories' and still be a good person.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Justhuman wrote:If God really exists, I think He will judge a human based on what he/she did in his/her life, whether one has been a good and kind person. Did you live a peacefull live? Did you live a loving life? Did you live a kind and caring life? Did you live a respectfull life? All that trancends any kind of believe, or disbelieve. Do you really think God cares whether someone believes in Him or even 'worships' Him? Like he thrives on that? What's more important, to believe in God or being a peacefull, kind, caring, respectfull person? (Not that I'm all that!).

You are describing all false god's but not the God of the bible.You see all false religions teach works for salvation and so a person can get away with any sin they have done based on their good works but this would mean this god is not holy and if you went to their heaven,etc it would still have sinners in it and so you would still have evil,and yet evil is the problem in this world,so why would we want to go to some heaven like this where it would be no different than this world?

I mean it seems to me that one of the reasons you doubt God is because of all the evil,pain and suffering in this world we live in now and so you'd have the same problem if you were to go to their heaven. It would be no different than this world because nothing was ever done about sin. But see in Christianity this is not the case,in Christianity, sin has been taken care of by Jesus and all of our sins can be washed away by his blood,so that sin will never enter heaven.

This is why Jesus died,it was punishment for the sin of the world and it took care of the sin problem. But this only applies if you believe in Jesus and accept this gift and are saved. So on judgment day it is not going to be so much about the good things you did but, is your name in the Lamb's book of life? This is what is going to be what is most important.

This is why the gospel of Jesus Christ is good news unlike in other religions who just give you a bunch of good works and laws to live by,you see Jesus already took the punishment for your sin and paid for your salvation in full and all you've got to do is recieve this gift. Jesus already fulfilled the laws of God you broke for you and so your sins are not counted against you.It is good news compared to all other god's and false religions.Jesus made it so easy even a caveman can do it.

But this only applies if you have accepted this gift,if you rejected this gift thinking that you'll be OK if there is a God because you're a good person overall it will not be good enough.You are looking at this from a false religion perspective.You will stand there with a big pile of sin you committed that was never washed away by Jesus because you assumed that it is'nt really that bad.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Is being an atheist irrational?

Post by Justhuman »

Justhuman wrote:I think you forget that for me, as an atheist, there is no God, so I am not bound to God and cannot reject God. I am 'free' to ponder about alternatives, adapt to what scientific discoveries are made, 'choose whatever suits best possible'. Of course that is also bound to (some strict) rules, but whithin those rules there is at least some freedom of movement. And who knows, at the end of all those discoveries, maybe God awaits there, smiling over such human foolishness.

And miracles are only miracles if they are unexplainable (about how on earth is that possible!). If God is behind those miracles than it is 'just' God doing His kind of unmiraculous omnipotent thing (at a moment and a place He chooses fit to do so). I know a few people who would have wished A miracle didn't end their live or the live of their loved one. So, please don't introduce that kind of God-thing in this irrationality discussion.
abelcainsbrother wrote:No I understand that you don't believe in God and you have the freedom to choose not to believe in God.But I was just pointing out to you how atheists tend to imagine up things that go outside our known world/universe when they reject God. It is like they wait patiently for an answer that will solve everything,yet it never comes.
I think we atheists (can't speak for all atheists) do not imagine things up, but try to explain the unknown by our current knowledge. And yes, I too think that patience will bring all the answers, providing we as the human race survive ourselves.
You claim it is hard to accept miracles but yet are forced by your atheism to accept things that require alot more faith to believe than to just accept the fact that God can do miracles.I know that you'll claim that you don't necessarily know how this vast universe got here but you are focred to accept that nothing caused it,which requires far,far more faith to believe. It ius not hard at all to believe God can do miracles if he chooses to because we read about them althroughout the bible.
Let me try once again a syllogistic reasoning:
Something cannot come from nothing,
Something does exist,
So nothing did not exist.

Thus, If nothing did not exist, yet something is here, then that something must have been always there.
Meaning that all the current matter in our universe was already there before the BB. The Big Question is then how did all that matter get 'from before' 'to now'.
But you seem to have a problem with miracles God can do because people don't always get a miracle. However God is honest with us about death and we know why we have death and sorrow in this world.Read Romans 8:22-23 for an example. It is not like we don't know why we have death and suffering in our world but what you are overlooking is that death is just the beginning of our lives when we die. So how long do you think you will live? 70-80 years? So how can you compare 70-80 years of pain and sorrow to eternity? All suffering is but a blip of time and God will one day set things right and it will be worth anything we suffered through in this life. But with atheism all you have is death to look forwad to. There is no hope in it and no reason to accept a world view that you have no evidence is true and yet willingly choose to reject God based on it when all it ultimately leads to is death.

But at the same time you are still forced to accept miracles that God can do easily to believe that nothing can create and cause universes and without any proof or evidence.No offense,but it is a dumb decision on your part to reject God because you have no evidence or proof atheism is true,noway to know you've made the correct choice while you overlook massive amounts of evidence Christianity is true,and yet even if we did'nt have evidence Christianity is true. We have nothing to suffer if we were somehow wrong about believing in Jesus.
I do NOT look forward to death! y[-(
I get the inpression that I as an atheist am deprived of many things that 'only a theist can have'. That I (as a Materialist) cannot have a free will, hope and life are ultimately meaningsless for me, every as yet unexaplainable thing can only be explainained by the existence of God...

I mean salvation is free because of what Jesus did for us and yet nothing would happen to me if I was somehow wrong,but yet you will be in trouble if you are wrong,so just based on odds of winning alone I have made the smarter decision because I do not suffer if I'm wrong like you will. And yet like I said you are basing your life on a shot in the dark having no evidence at all atheism is true and correct. So that it is not a wise decision at all to be an atheist. But yes,you are still free to choose for yourself and suffer the consequences of being wrong,unlike me. Just know that any suffering you do will not just be for 70-80 years,but eternity, so choose wisely.

Want it dead or alive.
https://youtu.be/WEJERLtMQaU
As long as I live a life that holds true to the christian values, I do not have to acknowledge God in order to get His respect. So in that case I should be failry safe.

On the other hand, if I'm right, then all that awaits you is only this moment you're living in until... nothing.
As for me I don't mind that nothing, because once it's there, I will not remember it. I think that makes life for me maybe more precious than it is for a theist.
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