Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
Nils
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#241

Post by Nils » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:12 pm

In #203 I wrote that “the majority of men believes in a God”. That is a reason why I think you can’t avoid the burden of proof, if you are an atheist and discussing religion. You have to tackle the question: Why do so many believe in a God? But I also indicated that you don’t have to take the discussion with all believers of all religions, for instance believers in Zeus or Odin. This is a practical/pragmatic opinion. In #219, as an answer to Kenny, I tried to be more specific and defined those religions to discuss as “wide spread” (but not mentioning anything about majority view). I was aware of that I perhaps wasn’t 100% clear but I thought it wasn’t a problem. I regret that I wasn’t when I now notice the dialogue that followed between Rick and Kenny.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#242

Post by RickD » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:54 pm

Nils wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:12 pm
In #203 I wrote that “the majority of men believes in a God”. That is a reason why I think you can’t avoid the burden of proof, if you are an atheist and discussing religion. You have to tackle the question: Why do so many believe in a God? But I also indicated that you don’t have to take the discussion with all believers of all religions, for instance believers in Zeus or Odin. This is a practical/pragmatic opinion. In #219, as an answer to Kenny, I tried to be more specific and defined those religions to discuss as “wide spread” (but not mentioning anything about majority view). I was aware of that I perhaps wasn’t 100% clear but I thought it wasn’t a problem. I regret that I wasn’t when I now notice the dialogue that followed between Rick and Kenny.

Nils
Nils,

I understood what you were saying. It seemed pretty clear to me.

The majority of people believe in a monotheistic, creator, sustainer, eternal God.

The discussion is about theism, not necessarily specific to Christianity.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#243

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm

Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#244

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:30 pm

If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#245

Post by Kenny » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.


If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#246

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 am

Kenny wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.


If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
Then you are agnostic.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#247

Post by Kenny » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:34 am

Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.


If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
Then you are agnostic.
How about if I have evidence that theism is not true, but no evidence concerning atheism either way?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#248

Post by RickD » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Kenny wrote:
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
Storyteller wrote:
Then you are agnostic.
Kenny wrote:
How about if I have evidence that theism is not true, but no evidence concerning atheism either way?
Then you are in denial.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#249

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:45 pm

Kenny wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:34 am
Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am


Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.


If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
Then you are agnostic.
How about if I have evidence that theism is not true, but no evidence concerning atheism either way?
Atheism is the belief that there is no God. If you had evidence that theism wasnt true, you would by default, be an atheist.
Atheists say there is no God.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#250

Post by Kenny » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Kenny wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:34 am
Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:29 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:11 pm


I could careless how atheists label themselves.There is something seriously wrong with people who choose to live out their life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.How come you don't want to know you're right? I thought atheists go by evidence and want proof for God,yet it is they who have no evidence for why they live out their life as an atheist. When are you going to take evidence seriously Kenny? Because the sooner you do the sooner you'll leave atheism due to it being too empty,even if you don't become a Christian you'll know atheism cannot be true due to no evidence and you'll finally leave atheism.But as long as you choose to not take evidence seriously you'll never be able to even begin to get to the truth.

Also how come you won't take my advice and ignore what people say,ignore what atheists say and actually visit a real haunted house? Because it will open your eyes to the spirit realm.


If you don't believe that atheists have no evidence atheism is true I want you to ask atheists for evidence atheism is true. And listen to them explain why they as an atheist do not have to have any evidence. And you'll know atheism cannot be true out of all other world views due to no evidence. The atheist would rather hide behind a label they expect you to go by than make sure they are correct in their atheistic thinking.

Then after you ask atheists for evidence I want you to ask Christians,muslims,hindu's,flat earthers,big foot,alien abductions,UFO sightings,witches,pagans,etc for evidence and you'll see them give you evidence,only atheists refuse to.Which means that there is more evidence for any of these other things i mentioned and I could keep going,but there is more evidence for these things than for atheism. Atheism is bottom of the barrel when it comes to having evidence you're correct.I'm not lying when I say atheism is too empty.
What do you mean when you say "no evidence that atheism is true or right? What do atheists claim as right? or true? If I have no evidence that atheism is true (whatever that means) am I supposed to become theist? Suppose I have no evidence that theism is true either?
Then you are agnostic.
How about if I have evidence that theism is not true, but no evidence concerning atheism either way?
Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:45 pm
Atheism is the belief that there is no God If you had evidence that theism wasnt true, you would by default, be an atheist
So you agree it is possible to be atheist without having evidence atheism is true (whatever that means)?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#251

Post by RickD » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:37 pm

1) God exists

2) An atheist believes that God doesn't exist


Kenny,

Logically, is it possible that both 1 and 2 can be true?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#252

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:41 pm

So you agree it is possible to be atheist without having evidence atheism is true (whatever that means)?

I guess but it depends what you call evidence really.
I mean i believe in God because, personally, i see (and feel) the evidence. That same evidence that utterly convinces me doesnt convince you.
But for me, its evidence. I couldnt believe without it.
Atheism works the same way i think. The evidence that convinces you doesnt convince me.
I cant see how you can believe something without some kind of evidence, at least to yourself.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#253

Post by RickD » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:41 pm
So you agree it is possible to be atheist without having evidence atheism is true (whatever that means)?

I guess but it depends what you call evidence really.
I mean i believe in God because, personally, i see (and feel) the evidence. That same evidence that utterly convinces me doesnt convince you.
But for me, its evidence. I couldnt believe without it.
Atheism works the same way i think. The evidence that convinces you doesnt convince me.
I cant see how you can believe something without some kind of evidence, at least to yourself.
It's true Storyteller. Kenny said:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."
So, as hard as it is to believe that a materialist, such as Kenny, doesn't need logic, reason, or proof, to believe something, that's what Kenny says.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#254

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:51 pm

Was he not being sarcastic?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#255

Post by RickD » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:15 pm

Storyteller wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:51 pm
Was he not being sarcastic?
Read for yourself. Here's his post:
viewtopic.php?p=244863#p244863

He still refuses to believe that atheism is a belief system.

Maybe you'll have better luck showing him.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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