Types of atheism

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Audie
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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:31 pm

Kenny wrote:
Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?


PaulSacramento wrote: More like it was "codified" I guess.

Lots of religions do that!

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.


PaulSacramento wrote: Didn't say they didn't, I said that it is VERY Christian and of all the religions and ideologies, Christianity focus on compassion far more than any other.

Of course! All theists will proclaim their religion of choice to be more compassionate, real, truthful, etc. etc. than all the others.

PaulSacramento wrote: Christianity is Not about morals per say, though it certainly has a very strong moral center.
Christian was already under a moral code from before they became Christians.
Sure their codes varied from Judaism to Paganism to simply following the Laws that was imposed on them by the society they lived in, but there was a base to work from.
The base, however, was TYPICALLY tribal and not universal as was the case with Christianity.
While most moral codes were applicable only to the "tribe" or "group" ( Even Viking berserkers had a code amongst themselves, though it did not apply to others), Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL ( or should ) AND that it was a STARTING point and not an end.

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


"Typically" does not mean "all".

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:38 pm

Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?


PaulSacramento wrote: More like it was "codified" I guess.

Lots of religions do that!

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.


PaulSacramento wrote: Didn't say they didn't, I said that it is VERY Christian and of all the religions and ideologies, Christianity focus on compassion far more than any other.

Of course! All theists will proclaim their religion of choice to be more compassionate, real, truthful, etc. etc. than all the others.

PaulSacramento wrote: Christianity is Not about morals per say, though it certainly has a very strong moral center.
Christian was already under a moral code from before they became Christians.
Sure their codes varied from Judaism to Paganism to simply following the Laws that was imposed on them by the society they lived in, but there was a base to work from.
The base, however, was TYPICALLY tribal and not universal as was the case with Christianity.
While most moral codes were applicable only to the "tribe" or "group" ( Even Viking berserkers had a code amongst themselves, though it did not apply to others), Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL ( or should ) AND that it was a STARTING point and not an end.

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


"Typically" does not mean "all".

So what do you think he is saying? That there are some religions other than Christianity that perceive their morality is for all of mankind like Christianity?

Ken

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby abelcainsbrother » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:04 pm

It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.But nobody can work their way to heaven like all the other religions teach,it is all in vain as far as salvation is concerned.This is why Jesus said "And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." It is because a person suddenly knows the truth when they are born again/saved by Jesus.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:33 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:58 am

Kenny wrote:
Audie wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?


PaulSacramento wrote: More like it was "codified" I guess.

Lots of religions do that!

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.


PaulSacramento wrote: Didn't say they didn't, I said that it is VERY Christian and of all the religions and ideologies, Christianity focus on compassion far more than any other.

Of course! All theists will proclaim their religion of choice to be more compassionate, real, truthful, etc. etc. than all the others.

PaulSacramento wrote: Christianity is Not about morals per say, though it certainly has a very strong moral center.
Christian was already under a moral code from before they became Christians.
Sure their codes varied from Judaism to Paganism to simply following the Laws that was imposed on them by the society they lived in, but there was a base to work from.
The base, however, was TYPICALLY tribal and not universal as was the case with Christianity.
While most moral codes were applicable only to the "tribe" or "group" ( Even Viking berserkers had a code amongst themselves, though it did not apply to others), Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL ( or should ) AND that it was a STARTING point and not an end.

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


"Typically" does not mean "all".

So what do you think he is saying? That there are some religions other than Christianity that perceive their morality is for all of mankind like Christianity?

Ken



I think he'd need to clarify. Appears to say 2 different things.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:05 am

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken


No, it means the power of the lord gets in there and changes christians.

Any claim that this is a belief unique to christianity is ignorant
(at best), but I suppose they think that for christians it is true.

What is demonstrably unique is that all others, it is the one true religion.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:32 am

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:40 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.


As in, you know it to be the case that the morality of no other people than the Christians
is extended to strangers?

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:55 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby RickD » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:59 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

You couldn't be more wrong.

Paul is just as ignorant about Christianity, as he is about other religions. :poke:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

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"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:59 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken


Actually, comparative religion was a standard course and I got a 92%, not perfect but better than average.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:00 am

Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.


As in, you know it to be the case that the morality of no other people than the Christians
is extended to strangers?


Nope, look at what I wrote:
Tribal religions tended to be focused on the group and their moral codes applied to the group and not to outsiders.
Originally and typically.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kurieuo » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:21 am

While religion often focuses upon morality, I much prefer to avoid my own righteousness (or lack thereof), such tends to breed an over the top religiosity and self-righteous hypocrites.

The difference between external/internal, is while religions, including many Christians and churches, focus on morality and self-improvement (a good thing), Christ teaches we'll never be righteous via the moral law but to show grace, love and forgiveness as we ourselves received (as per the Lord's prayer in Matt 6:12). In contrast to the Pharisees in Jesus' day focusing upon internal purification while placing a heavy yoke of moral and religious rules upon others, Jesus by contrast says his yoke is easy and burden light (Matt 11:30) also saying elsewhere that the whole Law is fulfilled via loving God and others. (Matthew 22:36-40)

Righteousness is not something we ourselves can obtain by being good, but rather something we receive in Christ. (Romans 3:21-24) If you don't understand the difference, then I suppose I don't really expect a non-Christian to understand. Christians on the other hand ought to and should understand the difference.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:10 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.


As in, you know it to be the case that the morality of no other people than the Christians
is extended to strangers?


Nope, look at what I wrote:
Tribal religions tended to be focused on the group and their moral codes applied to the group and not to outsiders.
Originally and typically.



What you earlier wrote is a mixed message. Tnx for clarifying.

,
Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:59 pm

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken


You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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