Types of atheism

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Kurieuo
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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:27 pm

Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:What began in jest, well, let's see what folks think of these articles:

In the early church history, yes Christians were called atheist:

Christians are Atheists

Accusations

Later that cold ecumenicalism crept in philosophic realms of Christian thought in the 1700 time frame and then into full gear, especially after World War One, and thus what you have is... a sort of liberal Unitarian belief system...

Christian atheism is a theological position in which the belief in the transcendent or interventionist God is rejected or absent in favor of finding God totally in the world (Thomas J. J. Altizer) or following Jesus in a godless world (William Hamilton). Hamilton's Christian atheism is similar to Jesuism.

So there you have it...
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So are you saying a Christian atheist is one who follows the philosophical teachings of Jesus, but do not worship him or any other deity as God?

Ken

My understanding of Christian Atheists upon visiting a website many years ago, and that is generally what they said they advocated -- moral teachings of Christ minus God.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:30 pm

A related thought, such probably wouldn't be much different from many Christians who claim to believe in God, except when out socially, in the work place or the like, they run and hide, remain silent and like whenever God or Christianity is raised like such is something to be ashamed of.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:54 pm

Kurieuo wrote:A related thought, such probably wouldn't be much different from many Christians who claim to believe in God, except when out socially, in the work place or the like, they run and hide, remain silent and like whenever God or Christianity is raised like such is something to be ashamed of.

I wouldn't judge those who don't discuss religion in public or at work, I know where I work religious talk is frowned upon, and in some cases forbidden. A Christian once told a Jewish man that he and all Jews were going to hell and quoted scriptures from the bible to back up his claim. The Jewish man was offended and a shouting match resulted. Since then and after a few other incidents of expressed religious beliefs; the Human Resources department has put those engaging in offensive religious conversations on notice. Now they don't run and hide their religious beliefs, they just know they can't discuss them at work.

Ken

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:20 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:A related thought, such probably wouldn't be much different from many Christians who claim to believe in God, except when out socially, in the work place or the like, they run and hide, remain silent and like whenever God or Christianity is raised like such is something to be ashamed of.

I wouldn't judge those who don't discuss religion in public or at work, I know where I work religious talk is frowned upon, and in some cases forbidden. A Christian once told a Jewish man that he and all Jews were going to hell and quoted scriptures from the bible to back up his claim. The Jewish man was offended and a shouting match resulted. Since then and after a few other incidents of expressed religious beliefs; the Human Resources department has put those engaging in offensive religious conversations on notice. Now they don't run and hide their religious beliefs, they just know they can't discuss them at work.

Sad. (Colossians 4:6)
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:44 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:A related thought, such probably wouldn't be much different from many Christians who claim to believe in God, except when out socially, in the work place or the like, they run and hide, remain silent and like whenever God or Christianity is raised like such is something to be ashamed of.

I wouldn't judge those who don't discuss religion in public or at work, I know where I work religious talk is frowned upon, and in some cases forbidden. A Christian once told a Jewish man that he and all Jews were going to hell and quoted scriptures from the bible to back up his claim. The Jewish man was offended and a shouting match resulted. Since then and after a few other incidents of expressed religious beliefs; the Human Resources department has put those engaging in offensive religious conversations on notice. Now they don't run and hide their religious beliefs, they just know they can't discuss them at work.

Sad. (Colossians 4:6)

Why do you call it sad?

K

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:05 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:A related thought, such probably wouldn't be much different from many Christians who claim to believe in God, except when out socially, in the work place or the like, they run and hide, remain silent and like whenever God or Christianity is raised like such is something to be ashamed of.

I wouldn't judge those who don't discuss religion in public or at work, I know where I work religious talk is frowned upon, and in some cases forbidden. A Christian once told a Jewish man that he and all Jews were going to hell and quoted scriptures from the bible to back up his claim. The Jewish man was offended and a shouting match resulted. Since then and after a few other incidents of expressed religious beliefs; the Human Resources department has put those engaging in offensive religious conversations on notice. Now they don't run and hide their religious beliefs, they just know they can't discuss them at work.

Sad. (Colossians 4:6)

Why do you call it sad?

A Christian with an abrasive personality leading to people not being free to discuss. It really wouldn't phase me still, I've often had interesting conversations with people in workplace. They're what I find the most interesting.

People have been interested to understand me more, I was interested to understand their own personal interactions with Christianity that led to them rejecting.

Often it turns out, many do have interesting Christian background, even retain some beliefs or fondness of experiences, yet, they can't stand the type of Christian you point out. Or, which Audie pointed out as some Christian standing in a square not really getting personal with anyone who just talks out to no one and anyone who walks by.
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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:20 am

Not sure if moral "parasite" is the right term.
It may be a valid description, though.

Most of what we regard as moral and ethical behaviour has its roots in Christianity, to some degree or another.
In Western Civilization of course.
Sure there are some "universals" like "do unto others as you would have them to unto you", that transcend any specific culture BUT the notion of Compassion, for example, is very Christian.

That said, I don't think that atheist that agree with the morals they have been brought up in and are exposed to that are Christian at their core, think that those moral ARE religious. They probably believe that religion is an expression of those moral and that those morals transcend religion.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:47 am

PaulSacramento wrote:Not sure if moral "parasite" is the right term.
It may be a valid description, though.

Most of what we regard as moral and ethical behaviour has its roots in Christianity, to some degree or another.
In Western Civilization of course.

Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?
PaulSacramento wrote: Sure there are some "universals" like "do unto others as you would have them to unto you", that transcend any specific culture BUT the notion of Compassion, for example, is very Christian.

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.
PaulSacramento wrote: That said, I don't think that atheist that agree with the morals they have been brought up in and are exposed to that are Christian at their core, think that those moral ARE religious. They probably believe that religion is an expression of those moral and that those morals transcend religion.

Agreed.

Ken

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:57 am

Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?


More like it was "codified" I guess.

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.


Didn't say they didn't, I said that it is VERY Christian and of all the religions and ideologies, Christianity focus on compassion far more than any other.

Christianity is Not about morals per say, though it certainly has a very strong moral center.
Christian was already under a moral code from before they became Christians.
Sure their codes varied from Judaism to Paganism to simply following the Laws that was imposed on them by the society they lived in, but there was a base to work from.
The base, however, was TYPICALLY tribal and not universal as was the case with Christianity.
While most moral codes were applicable only to the "tribe" or "group" ( Even Viking berserkers had a code amongst themselves, though it did not apply to others), Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL ( or should ) AND that it was a STARTING point and not an end.

But all this is a discussion for a different thread.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:44 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Not sure if moral "parasite" is the right term.
It may be a valid description, though.


It is vivid all right. You actually are "not sure", but think it might be the right term? Prease clarify.

Most of what we regard as moral and ethical behaviour has its roots in Christianity, to some degree or another.

We?


In Western Civilization of course.
Sure there are some "universals" like "do unto others as you would have them to unto you", that transcend any specific culture BUT the notion of Compassion, for example, is very Christian.


so is eating supper.


That said, I don't think that atheist that agree with the morals they have been brought up in and are exposed to that are Christian at their core


Oh? Thios one does not agree with that.

, think that those moral ARE religious. They probably believe that religion is an expression of those moral and that those morals transcend religion.


Transcend in the sense that religions are parasitic.


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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:50 am

Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:17 am

PaulSacramento wrote:Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.



We could get into semantics, but I am satisfied that you at least dont go with that mean spirited crap about atheists as moral parasites.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby PaulSacramento » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:50 am

Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.



We could get into semantics, but I am satisfied that you at least dont go with that mean spirited crap about atheists as moral parasites.


I find the wording offensive even IF the description MAY be correct of some.
I know very few atheists that do NOT give Christianity is due in regards to its positive influence on morals and science in western civilization.
The problem is that the small percentage that DON'T are the most vocal !

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Audie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:08 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.



We could get into semantics, but I am satisfied that you at least dont go with that mean spirited crap about atheists as moral parasites.


I find the wording offensive even IF the description MAY be correct of some.
I know very few atheists that do NOT give Christianity is due in regards to its positive influence on morals and science in western civilization.
The problem is that the small percentage that DON'T are the most vocal !


It is the idea, not the wording that is offensive. Various christians appear to tell eachother this
so often that it is second nature.

Christianity has a mixed bag, so far as conferring the blessings of sacred morality upon others.
Modern Christianity as practiced in the west has overall a positive influence overall. Imo.

That is of course not the same as being the source, or exclusive conduit. Like nobody nowhere can be moral or as good as a Christian, and all that rot.

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Re: Types of atheism

Postby Kenny » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:16 pm

Such as… When you say a moral behavior has its roots in Christianity, you are saying this moral behavior did not exist prior to Christianity. So which moral behaviors observed by “western civilization” did not exist prior to Christianity?


PaulSacramento wrote: More like it was "codified" I guess.

Lots of religions do that!

Naaww, “compassion” is universal as well; people have been showing compassion towards one another long before Jesus or Christianity.


PaulSacramento wrote: Didn't say they didn't, I said that it is VERY Christian and of all the religions and ideologies, Christianity focus on compassion far more than any other.

Of course! All theists will proclaim their religion of choice to be more compassionate, real, truthful, etc. etc. than all the others.

PaulSacramento wrote: Christianity is Not about morals per say, though it certainly has a very strong moral center.
Christian was already under a moral code from before they became Christians.
Sure their codes varied from Judaism to Paganism to simply following the Laws that was imposed on them by the society they lived in, but there was a base to work from.
The base, however, was TYPICALLY tribal and not universal as was the case with Christianity.
While most moral codes were applicable only to the "tribe" or "group" ( Even Viking berserkers had a code amongst themselves, though it did not apply to others), Christianity was unique that the moral extended to ALL ( or should ) AND that it was a STARTING point and not an end.

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken


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