The Delusion of "Free Will"

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
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RickD
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Re: The Delusion of "Free Will"

Postby RickD » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:00 pm

Life is an illusion.

Never mind free will, all you who think you're even having this conversation, are deluded.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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abelcainsbrother
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Re: The Delusion of "Free Will"

Postby abelcainsbrother » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:38 pm

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Audacity wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:No,I'm trying to get you to understand that we determine what is true or not based on evidence,but you did'nt get it because you think it is irrelevant to this disscussion,etc. So you overlooked my point.We have all kinds of conspiracy theories and they can sound very convincing the way they are presented,but without evidence? And it is nothing more than an opinion.

I just think you should re-think this theory you've picked up and find evidence to confirm it or not,like I did using Aquinas's four principles. I actually gave evidence for how and why they point to God. So it cannot be "God of the gaps". God of the gaps would be if we did not have evidence and were just filling in the lack of evidence with God,but we are not doing that. It is evidence based,which is why you can't name anything in our world they don't apply to. The four principles are - All things have a cause,and all things that have a cause are caused by something else,all things are willed into existence and there can be no infinite regression.

You seem to know some about philosophy although the not caring about the "why" point is a problem. It is something that most atheists live by and they wait on science to give them an answer some day.Not realizing that modern day science does not ask the "why" either,so that science can never give them an answer and so they will never,ever know or get an answer.It is a state of limbo.

There is no sense in deluding yourself,going through life believing things that sounded good to you but did not have evidence behind it and after you die,you realize you were wrong and made a poor decision that can't be undone because you ignored the truth based on evidence. If you like philosophy why not check out Thomas Aquinas? Because noone has ever refuted him,still to this day,they have only ignored him or didn't know. He is still just as right as back then.

To reformat; your four principles:

.......
1) All things have a cause

.......2) All things that have a cause are caused by something else

.......3) All things are willed into existence

.......4) There can be no infinite regression

"1) All things have a cause." True, which would necessarily include god.

" 2) All things that have a cause are caused by something else." This simply doesn't make sense. Consider the example of Thing A. In effect it says A has a cause, which we will call Y, but then you say A isn't caused by Y, but by something else. Does this make sense to you?

"3) All things are willed into existence." Unless you're talking about God willing them into existence this doesn't make any sense---I've never heard of a rock having been willed into existence. And, if you are talking about God willing them into existence then you're first going to have to present convincing evidence this is true, because as it stands I haven't seen any. So as it stands your third principle is moot.

"4) There can be no infinite regression." Agreed, but so what?



They apply to everything in our world. God is outside our world and I made that clear,besides you can't just make up a straw man God that is not eternal,eternal things cannot be caused.


Perhaps #1 should be rephrased to something like "All things that are not eternal have a cause"

K



Yeah ,you're right. For those who don't know our God is eternal.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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