Why is it considered that God is good?

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Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby IceMobster » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:40 pm

Why is there a positive connotation when we are talking about God?
How can we know that God is not a neutral entity that created people and just wants to observe our behavior (don't mistake this for [nonsense] such as Big Brother or similar)? (This is pretty much Deism, eh?)
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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Storyteller » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Because He humbled Himself, to live with us, as one of us, and died for us.
And He allows us to choose.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby IceMobster » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:47 pm

I am well aware of that.
However, what about all the people He killed in the OT? He didn't let all those people He killed choose...
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Storyteller » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:56 am

IceMobster wrote:I am well aware of that.
However, what about all the people He killed in the OT? He didn't let all those people He killed choose...


I know very little about Scripture, especially the OT so can you give me a few examples? Then I can read, ponder, and answer.

But, even before that, I can say that God is perfect in everything He does, He has to be, otherwise He cannot be God so I`m pretty sure that there will have been a good reason. Nothing God does can go against His nature.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:57 am

IF God exists then He must, by the very definition of being God, be Good ( since being bad or evil would mean that a being that is good would be better then Him, ergo he could not be God).
As for all the people He killed in the OT.
Let's not, for now, not deal with who they were and why they had to die.
Lets deal with the real issue which is does God have the right to kill people, because, if He has the right then He was justified in doing so REGARDLESS of how WE feel about it.

If God exists then He is ALL GOOD and all good means also ALL RIGHTEOUS, which means that He can't allow sin and evil to go unpunished ( sin and evil being by-product of free will, God can NOT eliminate them because that would go against His very nature) and since He can't allow sin and evil to go unpunished he must then punish evil.

So, what about all those people He killed?
Well, they were sinful and evil and, on top of that, they did NOT view themselves as being in the wrong so there was no redemption possible for them.
There are more issues there also, the fact that there were entire civilizations/ blood lines that were contaminated by "son's of God" that left Heaven and who's offspring reeked havoc on the world.

Remember, God always gives a chance at redemption and it is only when people reject God's offer that judgment is passed.

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby IceMobster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:51 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:IF God exists then He must, by the very definition of being God, be Good ( since being bad or evil would mean that a being that is good would be better then Him, ergo he could not be God).
As for all the people He killed in the OT.
Let's not, for now, not deal with who they were and why they had to die.
Lets deal with the real issue which is does God have the right to kill people, because, if He has the right then He was justified in doing so REGARDLESS of how WE feel about it.

If God exists then He is ALL GOOD and all good means also ALL RIGHTEOUS, which means that He can't allow sin and evil to go unpunished ( sin and evil being by-product of free will, God can NOT eliminate them because that would go against His very nature) and since He can't allow sin and evil to go unpunished he must then punish evil.

So, what about all those people He killed?
Well, they were sinful and evil and, on top of that, they did NOT view themselves as being in the wrong so there was no redemption possible for them.
There are more issues there also, the fact that there were entire civilizations/ blood lines that were contaminated by "son's of God" that left Heaven and who's offspring reeked havoc on the world.

Remember, God always gives a chance at redemption and it is only when people reject God's offer that judgment is passed.

Concerning the last sentence. Will that chance be clear to the one receiving it? When will it be? Is it possible to receive it after this life? I understand you can't know the answers to these questions, but, eh...

Idk, bro. I understand your view upon the topic and my questions - where the giver of life can also take a life(and where we can't know the real reasons or plans which are only known to God), but I can't seem to explain it to some atheist... (S)he doesn't want to accept a God who kills people... What do I do then? The conversation comes to a dead end...


Storyteller wrote:
IceMobster wrote:I am well aware of that.
However, what about all the people He killed in the OT? He didn't let all those people He killed choose...


I know very little about Scripture, especially the OT so can you give me a few examples? Then I can read, ponder, and answer.

But, even before that, I can say that God is perfect in everything He does, He has to be, otherwise He cannot be God so I`m pretty sure that there will have been a good reason. Nothing God does can go against His nature.

The example:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.hr/ ... r-god.html

and this is the list: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.hr/ ... bible.html
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Storyteller » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Bear with me while I read a bit.

Will get back to you with my thoughts.
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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:08 pm

Concerning the last sentence. Will that chance be clear to the one receiving it? When will it be? Is it possible to receive it after this life? I understand you can't know the answers to these questions, but, eh...


IMO, I don't think that anyone will have the excuse of not knowing God before they reject Him.

Idk, bro. I understand your view upon the topic and my questions - where the giver of life can also take a life(and where we can't know the real reasons or plans which are only known to God), but I can't seem to explain it to some atheist... (S)he doesn't want to accept a God who kills people... What do I do then? The conversation comes to a dead end...

With atheist, the problem of pain, suffering and evil is a very crucial one.
It is, however, and emotional one, not a logical one and by that I mean that even the most militant atheist will concede that there are circumstances in which God should kill.
The emotional problem stems from the belief that IF there is a God that He shouldn't have to.

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby crochet1949 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:35 am

I believe that it's in Romans 1 or so that we are told that there is ample evidence in nature as to God's existence. And He has given us His Word / Scripture. So that 'we' are without excuse. Which would mean that either we accept what we can observe and are told and have available to read in This life time, or we Reject during this life time. Because after This life, there Is eternity Forever either with or without God.

God is considered to be Good because of John 3:16 -- For God so loved the world that He Gave His only Son's life so that our redemption is possible. And 1 John 1:9 His forgiveness of our sins. And that He's given us all kinds of guidelines to live a good, healthy, productive , innerly peaceful life by -- If we're willing to follow them.

It's spiritual warfare that we see the effects of -- satan wants as many people in hell with him as possible. The more people he can deceive with his lies the better.

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby IceMobster » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:38 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_God_Challenge

"Criticisms and responses:
Several criticisms and responses to the Evil God Challenge have been presented. William Lane Craig, Steve Wykstra, Dan Howard-Snyder, and Mike Rea have all suggested that the evident presence of good in the world makes impossible the notion of an all-evil, omnipotent God."

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad response? There is as much as evil as there is good in the world.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Philip » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:04 pm

but I can't seem to explain it to some atheist... (S)he doesn't want to accept a God who kills people... What do I do then? The conversation comes to a dead end...


Ice, why are you debating the acceptance of God with anyone UNTIL you, yourself embrace Him? Really, what is the point?

As God is ALL-knowing, He intimately knows the hearts, minds and limits/extents of resistance of all persons. He knows precisely the identities of ALL whom, no matter what they are EVER shown, will NEVER embrace Him. To God, such people were dead before they were ever born, eternity-wise. Not because He CREATED them to permanently resist Him, but because He perfectly knows all future things, motivations, and ultimate actions and beliefs of everyone - and He has ALWAYS known these. In fact, God not doubt sprinkles people across time and place per 1) what He has always known about them and 2) per His eternal plans. So, how a person's resistance or eventual acceptance of God plays out, in real time, is another matter, from OUR perspectives. Some that God allows to die clearly will be in Heaven with Him. In addition to all believers, I put children, the mentally ill, those INCAPABLE of understanding and embracing Him, in this category.

But there are NO miscalculations or misunderstandings with God. He doesn't haphazardly allow people to die or to do so without having an opportunity for salvation, as He has always known who will ultimately reject Him, no matter what He might reveal to them about Himself, and no matter how long of a life He allows them. For those whom die unsaved, it matters not, eternity-wise/in God's eyes, whether they die early deaths or whether they live to be 202 - as their eternal fate will nonetheless be the same. We see the deaths of those killed within the gauge of human measure, but God has the eternal measure - which is one that has every pertinent fact about a person's eternal choices and desires. We can only imperfectly see how things play out, and without God's ability to perfectly see the hearts, minds, all actions and motivations of a person's entire life, and BEFORE they are born.

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby IceMobster » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:34 pm

Philip wrote:
but I can't seem to explain it to some atheist... (S)he doesn't want to accept a God who kills people... What do I do then? The conversation comes to a dead end...


Ice, why are you debating the acceptance of God with anyone UNTIL you, yourself embrace Him? Really, what is the point?

Umm, because atheism makes no sense? I didn't say I didn't embrace Him. I said I can't be sure the incarnation through Jesus is/was real.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Philip » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:55 pm

ICE: I didn't say I didn't embrace Him. I said I can't be sure the incarnation through Jesus is/was real.


And yet, in God's eyes, IF unchanged, the nuance matters not.

Ice, if theism is true, this God who created has created but ONE incredible creature, amongst the millions of species, for whom this question of God is even an issue - much less, even contemplated. This God purposely created one creature for which great intelligence, creativity, a desire for intellectually intimate, personal companionship, communication, and emotional, psychological yearnings and love is not only possible but intensely sought after by the species. Would we not likewise expect a Deity of great passion for personal relationship? Does such a God create such a marvel of a universe, of untold species, with one so unique at the apex of it all, spend so much time on such breath-taking detail, in what was made, how it all functions, is designed, how it interacts, and yet communicate obscurely, through unverified sources full of mysticism - OR, would He not prolifically communicate, through many different messengers, each revealing a consistent message of precisely Who this God is and what He desires? It makes no sense that such a Creator would just ignore or abandon His Creation, as this God clearly left NOTHING to chance in how He created and designed the universe and world.

Of the supposed God CANDIDATES of the various faith traditions, what other faith has any credibility of messengers, fullfilled prophecies, changed lives, preaching a message of love, hope and truth? What other credible candidate exists, besides the Christian God? The other candidates lie in asserted mysticism, New Age metaphysics, earth and animaists religions/creation worshipers, or they tacked on false and additional teachings to that of Scripture (like Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses, various other cults). Of the candidates, ONLY Christianity has a track record of credibility!

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Storyteller » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:28 am

IceMobster wrote:
Philip wrote:
but I can't seem to explain it to some atheist... (S)he doesn't want to accept a God who kills people... What do I do then? The conversation comes to a dead end...


Ice, why are you debating the acceptance of God with anyone UNTIL you, yourself embrace Him? Really, what is the point?

Umm, because atheism makes no sense? I didn't say I didn't embrace Him. I said I can't be sure the incarnation through Jesus is/was real.



Why not?

And I ask because less than eighteen months ago I felt the same.

Sure, I can accept God, I can even accept Christ. But rise from the dead? Really? :shock:

All I can say is research, question and trust.

As hard as it is to get your head around, I really, really do believe it`s true. There is the shroud, the fact no body has ever been found and the fact that his followers after believing all was lost, saw Him, touched Him. Knew He was real, in the flesh. They knew. And they were so sure, they gave up their lives rather than deny the truth of it.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it considered that God is good?

Postby Storyteller » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:32 am

P.S.

When I first joined here, I was nearer the agnostic end of the spectrum but there was a tiny seed of belief. I took a leap of faith, went okay, you`re real, I trust you, I believe, now what?

Through debating things on here, while I am willing to accept I may be wrong, nothing has convinced me I am. Whereas so much has convinced me I`m right.

I think arguing (sorry, debating) with atheists is a good thing. It can help with figuring things out. Seeing both sides kind of thing.
Nothing that has been put forward by a non believer has swayed me from my belief, it has strengthened it if anything.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran


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