Was Adam perfect?

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PaulSacramento
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by PaulSacramento »

stuartcr wrote:Basically not predestination
You seem to be implying just that.
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stuartcr
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
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Starhunter
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Sorry, now I understand where you are coming from.
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RickD
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by RickD »

stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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neo-x
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
I used to struggle with this question and this has been debated here before, a lot some few years back.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
It seems that the definition you use is not the same as what Paul uses, or others here.

Just wanted to clarify this.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart
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stuartcr
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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RickD wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
I really don't know why God does what He does. He just made me this way.
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stuartcr
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

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1over137 wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
It seems that the definition you use is not the same as what Paul uses, or others here.

Just wanted to clarify this.
That's pretty much what always happens in these discussions when people have different references. I think that's why men have always had and will always have these discussions.
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RickD
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by RickD »

stuartcr wrote:
RickD wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
I really don't know why God does what He does. He just made me this way.
So basically, you really have no reason to believe an omniscient God can't allow humans the ability to make choices, correct?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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stuartcr
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by stuartcr »

I don't really think of reason when I consider peoples beliefs in God and these subjects. Most religions have parts of them or stories, that are not reasonable, yet many still believe in them. I think how each individuals sees God, is strictly between them and God. I believe that God has no problem dealing with each of us on an individual basis.
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PaulSacramento
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by PaulSacramento »

stuartcr wrote:
RickD wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
I really don't know why God does what He does. He just made me this way.
God didn't make you any way at all, He didn't make you, you were born of your mother and father.
God stopped making people a LONG time ago.
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Byblos
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by Byblos »

PaulSacramento wrote:
stuartcr wrote:
RickD wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
I really don't know why God does what He does. He just made me this way.
God didn't make you any way at all, He didn't make you, you were born of your mother and father.
God stopped making people a LONG time ago.
y:-/ :esurprised:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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PaulSacramento
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by PaulSacramento »

Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
stuartcr wrote:
RickD wrote:
stuartcr wrote:Sorry, got it backwards. Free will/choices to me, means having the ability to do something that God does not know ahead of time we will do. That is why I do not believe it exists.
Why do you think it means that? Why couldn't an omniscient God allow people choices?
I really don't know why God does what He does. He just made me this way.
God didn't make you any way at all, He didn't make you, you were born of your mother and father.
God stopped making people a LONG time ago.
y:-/ :esurprised:
You seem surprised.
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Byblos
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by Byblos »

PaulSacramento wrote:You seem surprised.
Very. I'm sure you have your reasons why you're saying that but it just sounds like something a deist would say.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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RickD
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Re: Was Adam perfect?

Post by RickD »

Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:You seem surprised.
Very. I'm sure you have your reasons why you're saying that but it just sounds like something a deist would say.
Or an evolutionist... :mrgreen:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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