Evidence for God from Science

Can carry this on in pm if its better...

How are non believers in grace?

Storyteller wrote:Can carry this on in pm if its better...

How are non believers in grace?

https://www.gci.org/law/nutshell

This ties in with it coming down to actively rejecting Christ, doesnt it?

Storyteller wrote:This ties in with it coming down to actively rejecting Christ, doesnt it?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.

RickD wrote: Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Storyteller wrote:That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.

Yeah

Storyteller wrote:That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.

I think we're talking about two different things.

Mallz wrote:

RickD wrote: Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

RickD wrote:

Mallz wrote:

RickD wrote: Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

Mallz wrote:

RickD wrote: Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't see those verses saying anything about Gentiles being born under the law. The Gentiles weren't given the law. The Jews in Paul's day were.

RickD wrote:

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

Mallz wrote:

RickD wrote: Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't see those verses saying anything about Gentiles being born under the law. The Gentiles weren't given the law. The Jews in Paul's day were.

I seem to be losing you a lot lately.

Gentiles who are non-believers are judged by the same law that was written onto their hearts. God didn't give them a different law.

Oh, please, Rick, don't be obtuse with equivocations. It's killing me reading. Nonetheless, you make an important point that when the Law is often spoken about, we easily rip out the context of such being the Law as given to Israel or the Pentateuch.

The Mosaic Law didn't clearly didn't come around until Moses, and yet there were moral laws nonetheless that one could transgress and such as sin (go against God).

• 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Romans 5:12-14)

Here we see Adam had one "law" that he offended God through violating, and nonetheless ALL of us suffered the consequences of that transgression, although people didn't sin "in the same likeness" as Adam.

In Romans 6, Paul talks (to both Jew and Gentile in Rome) about not letting sin reign in us through the lusts of our physical bodies, for basically we are righteous, not by the Law but by Grace. (vv.12-14) Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? (v.15) How can this be relevant to Gentiles if they were never under any law? Really, most of Paul's words in Romans would be largely irrelevant.

Everyone was aware of a law in some way, which I do think the Romans 2 passage reveals. How else can one be judged if they don't have the Law? Well, God's written this law into our hearts, such that very our conscience either accuses or defends us. And each of us know full well that we break that law -- each of us knows we've done wrong at some point:

• 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

So then, either we're under the law of our conscience when God judges us in the end, or if a Jew they'll be comdemned according to the Law. We've all strayed according to our own desires departing from God's as in Isaiah's veiled prophecy, "We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

K,

I'm not equivocating. At least not intentionally. Although, if you think I'm obtuse, I think you're kinda acute.

RickD wrote:K,

I'm not equivocating. At least not intentionally. Although, if you think I'm obtuse, I think you're kinda acute.

Err... I'm not sure how to respond to that. Really. I don't. Think I'll be going now.