Am I a Christian?

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Storyteller » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:22 pm

Can carry this on in pm if its better...

How are non believers in grace?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:37 pm

Storyteller wrote:Can carry this on in pm if its better...

How are non believers in grace?

https://www.gci.org/law/nutshell
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Storyteller » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:53 pm

This ties in with it coming down to actively rejecting Christ, doesnt it?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:56 pm

Storyteller wrote:This ties in with it coming down to actively rejecting Christ, doesnt it?

I'm not sure what you're asking.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Storyteller » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:15 pm

That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:25 pm

RickD wrote:Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:27 pm

Storyteller wrote:That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.

Yeah

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:32 pm

Storyteller wrote:That the only way of not being in grace is by rejecting it, Christ.

I think we're talking about two different things.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:34 pm

Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Byblos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:51 pm

RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.


I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:32 pm

Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.


I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't see those verses saying anything about Gentiles being born under the law. The Gentiles weren't given the law. The Jews in Paul's day were.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Byblos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:47 pm

RickD wrote:
Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.

Everyone is born into the law, we move from condemnation of the law into the grace of the new covenant. If we don't decide to be apart of that covenant, we wont be. It isn't given by default, it's given by grace, which has to be accepted. People don't get condemned by the new covenant, but by the law. Grace, for a time, is opened to all. But no one has it, even when they do. So, we're only under the new covenant when we accept it and until we do are all under wrath and condemned by the law we are born into.

Do you mind telling me where you are getting this from? Born into the law? What does that even mean? Scripture please.

We aren't born into nor under the law. The covenant of the OT law has ended. We are under the covenant of grace. The new covenant of the gospel of Christ.

I don't understand what you guys are talking about.


I showed you where it's coming from: Romans 2:14-15.

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't see those verses saying anything about Gentiles being born under the law. The Gentiles weren't given the law. The Jews in Paul's day were.


I seem to be losing you a lot lately. :mrgreen:

Gentiles who are non-believers are judged by the same law that was written onto their hearts. God didn't give them a different law.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:48 pm

Oh, please, Rick, don't be obtuse with equivocations. It's killing me reading. :P Nonetheless, you make an important point that when the Law is often spoken about, we easily rip out the context of such being the Law as given to Israel or the Pentateuch.

The Mosaic Law didn't clearly didn't come around until Moses, and yet there were moral laws nonetheless that one could transgress and such as sin (go against God).

    12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Romans 5:12-14)

Here we see Adam had one "law" that he offended God through violating, and nonetheless ALL of us suffered the consequences of that transgression, although people didn't sin "in the same likeness" as Adam.

In Romans 6, Paul talks (to both Jew and Gentile in Rome) about not letting sin reign in us through the lusts of our physical bodies, for basically we are righteous, not by the Law but by Grace. (vv.12-14) Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? (v.15) How can this be relevant to Gentiles if they were never under any law? Really, most of Paul's words in Romans would be largely irrelevant.

Everyone was aware of a law in some way, which I do think the Romans 2 passage reveals. How else can one be judged if they don't have the Law? Well, God's written this law into our hearts, such that very our conscience either accuses or defends us. And each of us know full well that we break that law -- each of us knows we've done wrong at some point:

    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

So then, either we're under the law of our conscience when God judges us in the end, or if a Jew they'll be comdemned according to the Law. We've all strayed according to our own desires departing from God's as in Isaiah's veiled prophecy, "We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:55 pm

K,

I'm not equivocating. At least not intentionally. Although, if you think I'm obtuse, I think you're kinda acute. y;) :giverose: :twodancing:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Kurieuo » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:05 pm

RickD wrote:K,

I'm not equivocating. At least not intentionally. Although, if you think I'm obtuse, I think you're kinda acute. y;) :giverose: :twodancing:

Err... I'm not sure how to respond to that. Really. I don't. Think I'll be going now. :wave:
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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