Am I a Christian?

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
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Byblos
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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Byblos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:50 am

Storyteller wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Thank you y>:D<

I hope that gives you reassurance that you're safe not being Catholic. :lol:


I have always known that.


As long as it's a moral one. :pound:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Storyteller » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:54 am

:shock:
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:55 am

Byblos wrote:
Storyteller wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Thank you y>:D<

I hope that gives you reassurance that you're safe not being Catholic. :lol:


I have always known that.


As long as it's a moral one. :pound:

Moral reassurance?

y:-?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:59 am

Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:Byblos,

I've never heard anyone say that unbelievers are under the law, then are under grace once they become believers.

Comparing "under law" and "under grace", I've only ever heard the comparison with regards to OT Israel before Christ's incarnation, and anyone else after.

So, I'm not grasping why you make that comparison.


The idea is not terribly important to my analogy, I was merely making a distinction between a state of grace and a state prior to being under grace, so I called it "under the law" for lack of a better term. But now that I think about it more, what other option is there for gentiles who are not under grace?

I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Byblos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:17 am

RickD wrote:
Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:Byblos,

I've never heard anyone say that unbelievers are under the law, then are under grace once they become believers.

Comparing "under law" and "under grace", I've only ever heard the comparison with regards to OT Israel before Christ's incarnation, and anyone else after.

So, I'm not grasping why you make that comparison.


The idea is not terribly important to my analogy, I was merely making a distinction between a state of grace and a state prior to being under grace, so I called it "under the law" for lack of a better term. But now that I think about it more, what other option is there for gentiles who are not under grace?

I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.


Or it's possible my line of thinking is faulty in this regard, being under grace for me meant being the child of God and that occurs when we accept Christ. I could be conflating the two, not sure. :oops:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:40 am

RickD wrote:Paul was not speaking of individual salvation. He was talking about God's plan for Jews and Gentiles as groups.

It's both. And more importantly, shows His universal attitude towards all people.
He was talking to individuals that make up those groups (starting with 'you who are gentiles') :shakehead:

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:43 am

RickD wrote:I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.

How are unbelievers under grace? Aren't they under wrath?

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:50 am

Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.

How are unbelievers under grace? Aren't they under wrath?

As I explained to Byblos, I believe we are all under grace. Under grace simply means we are under the new covenant.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:52 am

RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.

How are unbelievers under grace? Aren't they under wrath?

As I explained to Byblos, I believe we are all under grace. Under grace simply means we are under the new covenant.

Unbelievers aren't in the new covenant.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:09 pm

Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.

How are unbelievers under grace? Aren't they under wrath?

As I explained to Byblos, I believe we are all under grace. Under grace simply means we are under the new covenant.

Unbelievers aren't in the new covenant.

Sure they are. Christ died for them didn't he?

https://www.gci.org/law/nutshell


A covenant is an agreement between two parties. It can be an agreement between a husband and wife, a friendship pact between two people, an alliance between two nations, or an agreement between God and humans. The new covenant is an agreement between God and humans. God sets the terms, he makes the offer, and we respond to it with either cooperation or resistance.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Byblos
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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Byblos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:12 pm

Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:
Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:I just thought we're all under grace. Believer and unbeliever. As in under the new covenant. Maybe I'm missing something else.

How are unbelievers under grace? Aren't they under wrath?

As I explained to Byblos, I believe we are all under grace. Under grace simply means we are under the new covenant.

Unbelievers aren't in the new covenant.


Yeah, I tend to agree with that so I stand by my initial understanding which is confirmed by Romans 2:14-15. Gentiles have God's commandments written on their hearts so if they are not under the new covenant of grace In Christ they are judged by the law.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Mallz » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:59 pm

RickD wrote:Sure they are. Christ died for them didn't he?
https://www.gci.org/law/nutshell
A covenant is an agreement between two parties. It can be an agreement between a husband and wife, a friendship pact between two people, an alliance between two nations, or an agreement between God and humans. The new covenant is an agreement between God and humans. God sets the terms, he makes the offer, and we respond to it with either cooperation or resistance.


You have to accept the new covenant to be a part of it. Christ died for everyone; everyone has to accept His covenant to be a part of it or His death is meaningless for them and they will face YHWHs wrath, not clothed in Christs righteousness.

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:23 pm

Mallz wrote:
RickD wrote:Sure they are. Christ died for them didn't he?
https://www.gci.org/law/nutshell
A covenant is an agreement between two parties. It can be an agreement between a husband and wife, a friendship pact between two people, an alliance between two nations, or an agreement between God and humans. The new covenant is an agreement between God and humans. God sets the terms, he makes the offer, and we respond to it with either cooperation or resistance.


You have to accept the new covenant to be a part of it. Christ died for everyone; everyone has to accept His covenant to be a part of it or His death is meaningless for them and they will face YHWHs wrath, not clothed in Christs righteousness.

Non believers are still under grace. They are under the new covenant. We all are. Saying you have to accept the new covenant to be under it is not being consistent. You think non believers accept that they're under the law? Non believers, many of whom don't believe in God, accept that they're under the law of God?

God made a new covenant for all people. We are all under the new covenant. Some choose to accept the terms. Others don't.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby Storyteller » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:07 pm

Youre both saying the same thing, accept Christ and you are under His covenant.

Before Christ was the law.

You live by the law or by His grace.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Am I a Christian?

Postby RickD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:17 pm

Storyteller wrote:Youre both saying the same thing, accept Christ and you are under His covenant.

Before Christ was the law.

You live by the law or by His grace.

No, we're saying different things. They're saying only believers are under the new covenant(grace). I'm saying everyone is under the new covenant. There's only the new covenant. The old covenant(OT law), is obsolete.

But as Byblos said, it's really not pertinent to his argument.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony


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