Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8317
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 622 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#16

Post by Philip » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:27 am

Thing about Kirk I admire, is that he came out as a Christian when he was still a very popular personality. He had the guts to say things that people needed to hear. Some might like for those who publicly declare Christ to have everything perfect in their understandings before going public. But we're all a work in progress. But whenever a person says heretical things (I don't think Kirk has) and they are made aware of it, and they persist - that is the point at which I form a negative view of them.
These users liked this post by Philip:
Nessa (Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:28 am)

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#17

Post by Kurieuo » Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:What has Ray did that is so bad? I always prefered him over the other YEC's because he simply talks about the need for Jesus and salvation mostly. He'll go out an interview people and ask them about their sin, and what God would say to them about it? and explain how it can be forgiven.Out of all of the popular YEC's I liked Ray the best over the others.
He backloads Christianity with a works-based doctrine.

What must we do to be saved? Ray Comfort says:
  • "Simply repent (turn from your sins) and put your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord."
For some added comfort to our security in Christ saving us, let me quote him at length:
  • Think of a man who has committed adultery. His faithful wife is more than willing to take him back, so what is the attitude in which he should approach her? It should be one of tremendous humility, asking for forgiveness, and determining in his heart never to even think of committing adultery again. That's how you should approach God. If you are not sure how to pray, read Psalm 51 and make it your prayer. Turn from your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ in the same way you would put your faith in a parachute to save you. You don't just "believe" it will benefit you, you actually entrust your life to it by putting it on. The Bible says, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 13:14). When you do that, God will forgive every sin you've ever committed and grant you the gift of eternal life. Then read the Bible daily and obey what you read.
Sorry Ray, but I don't believe you've stopped sinning or lusting. So then, I guess you didn't really turn from your sins. I guess you haven't put on Christ like a parachute. Good luck to you though.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#18

Post by Kurieuo » Tue May 03, 2016 11:17 pm

Nessa wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:What has Ray did that is so bad? I always prefered him over the other YEC's because he simply talks about the need for Jesus and salvation mostly. He'll go out an interview people and ask them about their sin, and what God would say to them about it? and explain how it can be forgiven.Out of all of the popular YEC's I liked Ray the best over the others.
I have respect for Ray - he is a kiwi after all ;)
Thanks Nessa, now it all makes sense. :P
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 4928
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory
Has liked: 203 times
Been liked: 168 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#19

Post by abelcainsbrother » Tue May 03, 2016 11:35 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:What has Ray did that is so bad? I always prefered him over the other YEC's because he simply talks about the need for Jesus and salvation mostly. He'll go out an interview people and ask them about their sin, and what God would say to them about it? and explain how it can be forgiven.Out of all of the popular YEC's I liked Ray the best over the others.
He backloads Christianity with a works-based doctrine.

What must we do to be saved? Ray Comfort says:
  • "Simply repent (turn from your sins) and put your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord."
For some added comfort to our security in Christ saving us, let me quote him at length:
  • Think of a man who has committed adultery. His faithful wife is more than willing to take him back, so what is the attitude in which he should approach her? It should be one of tremendous humility, asking for forgiveness, and determining in his heart never to even think of committing adultery again. That's how you should approach God. If you are not sure how to pray, read Psalm 51 and make it your prayer. Turn from your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ in the same way you would put your faith in a parachute to save you. You don't just "believe" it will benefit you, you actually entrust your life to it by putting it on. The Bible says, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 13:14). When you do that, God will forgive every sin you've ever committed and grant you the gift of eternal life. Then read the Bible daily and obey what you read.
Sorry Ray, but I don't believe you've stopped sinning or lusting. So then, I guess you didn't really turn from your sins. I guess you haven't put on Christ like a parachute. Good luck to you though.
I would'nt explain it like that but he's still leading them to Jesus for forgiveness of sins and salvation and telling them to pray and ask Jesus.

Old Time Romans Road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE04NYwlZj8
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#20

Post by Kurieuo » Wed May 04, 2016 12:11 am

It's a false "good news" though.

As to his effectiveness, I'm not sure how effective he really is? Except to those who already believe, who then seem to become entangled again by sin and doubt their salvation.
  • Galatians 5:1-6
    1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
    2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Question: Is Comfort teaching anyone that their justification is dependent upon their work, a work involving turning from sin, a work that involves their "putting on Christ"? I believe Ray is. That's wrong, and I won't mince words in calling it a false Gospel like Paul did.

I was amused and then irked when my wife made me watch Audacity. What I saw appeared to be lost people needing direction, actually initially receptive and willing to listen, who he then just sledgehammers on the head with "idolators, prostitutes, homosexuals not entering the kingdom of God" or something such lines. And he seemed to delight in getting to that line. So sad, so unloving, so not Christ-like.

I felt that Ray was representing Christ to those who are lost like He's the enemy, rather than the One they should be running to. So sorry, no respect for Comfort. That was enough for me to understand the type of Christian he is. And sadly, Kirk Cameron seems to be his sidekick. Nonetheless, I do have an admiration for Kirk.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21332
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 199 times
Been liked: 1063 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#21

Post by RickD » Wed May 04, 2016 3:10 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Nonetheless, I do have an admiration for Kirk.
I think you're only pretending to like Kirk, so you can get to his sister. :shakehead:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#22

Post by Kurieuo » Thu May 05, 2016 4:16 am

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Nonetheless, I do have an admiration for Kirk.
I think you're only pretending to like Kirk, so you can get to his sister. :shakehead:
If she'll obey me then I'll take the upgrade.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21332
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 199 times
Been liked: 1063 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#23

Post by RickD » Thu May 05, 2016 4:29 am

Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Nonetheless, I do have an admiration for Kirk.
I think you're only pretending to like Kirk, so you can get to his sister. :shakehead:
If she'll obey me then I'll take the upgrade.
Mrs. K, Mrs. K!!!

You in twubble now! :nono:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#24

Post by Kurieuo » Thu May 05, 2016 4:54 am

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Nonetheless, I do have an admiration for Kirk.
I think you're only pretending to like Kirk, so you can get to his sister. :shakehead:
If she'll obey me then I'll take the upgrade.
Mrs. K, Mrs. K!!!

You in twubble now! :nono:
What about you, putting sexy photos of your wife online? :shakehead:
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

SoCalExile
Valued Member
Posts: 409
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:20 pm
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 24 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#25

Post by SoCalExile » Thu May 05, 2016 7:37 am

Ray Comfort ( and Kirk Cameron) not only preach the "turn from your sins" line, but also add, "and commit to living a life of holiness" to be saved, which is salvation-by-works and one of the four perversions of grace.

More: https://redeemingmoments.com/2014/07/11 ... is-gospel/

These users liked this post by SoCalExile:
Kurieuo (Thu May 05, 2016 5:13 pm)
God's grace is not cheap; it's free.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9958
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 634 times
Been liked: 653 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#26

Post by Kurieuo » Thu May 05, 2016 5:12 pm

SoCalExile wrote:Ray Comfort ( and Kirk Cameron) not only preach the "turn from your sins" line, but also add, "and commit to living a life of holiness" to be saved, which is salvation-by-works and one of the four perversions of grace.

More: https://redeemingmoments.com/2014/07/11 ... is-gospel/

Some probably thought me being harsh, but that video illustrates perfectly what I was saying about Comfort:
As to his effectiveness, I'm not sure how effective he really is? Except to those who already believe, who then seem to become entangled again by sin and doubt their salvation.
and
What I saw appeared to be lost people needing direction, actually initially receptive and willing to listen, who he then just sledgehammers on the head with "idolators, prostitutes, homosexuals not entering the kingdom of God" or something such lines. And he seemed to delight in getting to that line. So sad, so unloving, so not Christ-like.
I'm confident that sweet woman received some good out of it, maybe brushed up on her theology, became a bit more reflective of what she believes. JWs lit a fire under my bum. Nonetheless, Comfort is clearly preaching a false gospel which isn't even good news, but ultimately lands us all back in our sin against God.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

crochet1949
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 177 times
Been liked: 73 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#27

Post by crochet1949 » Mon May 09, 2016 1:52 am

Doesn't God call us to holiness when He says to Be Ye holy for I am holy. As believers -- shouldn't we Want to please God ? Realizing that while we are on this earth, No one will be sinless. And it shouldn't be an attitude of trying to 'keep' our salvation. Because That would suggest that the Holy Spirit would come and go from indwelling the believer. And part of the role Of the Holy Spirit is to Keep us / indwell us Until we are safe with Jesus Christ for eternity. And we don't need to be kicking ourselves any time we Do commit some sin -- God know us -- He knows how He created us-- our weaknesses. He also promises to help us with those things -- we can ask Him for help.
I'm saying all this, not having listened to the tape, yet. The name 'Ray Comfort' sounds familiar, but I'd have to look him up.

abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 4928
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory
Has liked: 203 times
Been liked: 168 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#28

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon May 09, 2016 2:30 am

crochet1949 wrote:Doesn't God call us to holiness when He says to Be Ye holy for I am holy. As believers -- shouldn't we Want to please God ? Realizing that while we are on this earth, No one will be sinless. And it shouldn't be an attitude of trying to 'keep' our salvation. Because That would suggest that the Holy Spirit would come and go from indwelling the believer. And part of the role Of the Holy Spirit is to Keep us / indwell us Until we are safe with Jesus Christ for eternity. And we don't need to be kicking ourselves any time we Do commit some sin -- God know us -- He knows how He created us-- our weaknesses. He also promises to help us with those things -- we can ask Him for help.
I'm saying all this, not having listened to the tape, yet. The name 'Ray Comfort' sounds familiar, but I'd have to look him up.
I agree with you,however if he is teaching works as a part of salvation? It is a problem as others have pointed out.
These users liked this post by abelcainsbrother:
Kurieuo (Mon May 09, 2016 4:19 pm)
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

crochet1949
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 177 times
Been liked: 73 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#29

Post by crochet1949 » Mon May 09, 2016 2:55 am

I hadn't yet clicked into the link or listened to what the lady is saying. It's the middle of the night where I am and I don't want to wake up my husband if the sound is loud. And works is obviously Not part of salvation.

SoCalExile
Valued Member
Posts: 409
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:20 pm
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 24 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Kirk Cameron: Advice not for the Masses

#30

Post by SoCalExile » Mon May 09, 2016 7:10 am

Let me ask you this Crochet: if someone doesn't completely "turn from sin" (which is not possible); what then? Does he/she have to be perfect? If not, what sins are okay and what sins aren't? Do I have to turn from every sin? What if I miss one?

Now add to that Jesus' teachings on lust and hate in Matthew 5, then Paul's words in Romans 14:23, plus scriptures like 1 John 1:8,10, Jeremiah 17:9, James 2:10 etc?

Better yet, have those preaching "turn from sin" turned form all their sins? If they say "yes" John said they're lying, and they hold themselves in higher regard than Paul did when he admitted he PRACTICED evil, in Romans 7:19!

It makes no sense, unless these men are trying to sell books and make money.
God's grace is not cheap; it's free.

Post Reply