Hallucinogenic drugs advice

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RickD
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
Philip wrote:
Audie: I need to sit with an actual keyboard for a proper reply. Im not dodging or playing poor me.
Great! Because I sincerely am curious and want to understand. :)
Start in two directions: drop some of the nonsense about me personally,
and, see if you think eating an animal is ever immoral under any circumstances.

If no to both then sincerity wont get you there.
Audie,

Before that question could be answered, when you use the term 'animals', do humans fit into that?
Dont be tiresome.
Im guessing it best not to speak of it
more, our minds are not on compatible wavelengths.

"East is east, west is west, never the twain shall meet"
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Philip
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by Philip »

"East is east, west is west, never the twain shall meet"
Sounds like a line in some groovy, New Age poem. But the reality of how things really ARE, does not change with geography, nor with whatever person considering or thinking about that reality. There is not Eastern truth and then Western truth. There is merely TRUTH that stands on its own. And how one PERCEIVES truth has absolutely nothing to do with the actuality of that truth!
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by Philip »

Audie: I need to sit with an actual keyboard for a proper reply. Im not dodging or playing poor me.
Philip: Great! Because I sincerely am curious and want to understand. :)
Audie: Start in two directions: drop some of the nonsense about me personally, and, see if you think eating an animal is ever immoral under any circumstances.

If no to both then sincerity wont get you there.
Wow, Audie - so THAT is what you consider a "proper" reply? More like a dodge! First place, no one said one thing about you personally! I made statements about evolutionists and Darwinists. I did not assert you have no "moral compass" - nor do think Darwinists have no moral compass - many are quite respectful and caring. But your moral code, how you think you and others should treat our fellow human being is not an idea that evolution or Darwinism can explain - because they do not deal with MORALITY. Do you disagree with that? I am not speaking of the morality of those whom believe in evolution as an unguided process. But when I ask, where is the morality in Darwinism, you get upset? Do you not agree that evolution is natural and simply how things occurred? Does any part of what those evolutionary processes included bother you? Clearly, you realize that carnivores and omnivores must eat the flesh of other animals - it's natural, how things have always been, right? But now you are asserting that ONE omnivore (man!), if he (humanely) kills and eats an animal for food, that is somehow wrong?

Audie, what I'm getting at is, HOW DID YOU DECIDE it's wrong ("barbaric) for men to kill and eat animals? Because if all man really is, is a very successful specie, amongst many others, and he does precisely what other species do, WHY do you say that is wrong? That's what I'm trying to understand - why do you believe this? Why is it wrong for man to kill and consume an animal, but not wrong for animals to do so? And do you believe it's just wrong for YOU, or also for everyone else, and why? You must admit that scientists never discuss the habits that made species successful, in terms of morality? Most would laugh and scoff at this. And if it is wrong for man, WHO says so? Some agree. Most of humanity does not.

Audie, saying this is a personal attack is 1) a huge dodge and 2) makes me wonder why you don't just say what you think in truly addressing my questions? It was you, btw, who asserted a common habit of man (killing and eating animals) is barbaric? But you refuse to answer by saying I'm attacking you and asserting you to be hypocrite? Immoral? No, at worse, I would merely say you developed your moral sense of this issue on your own, and independent of behaviors you might think evolution included - which I find fascinating. Why do you always think people are out to get you? And why do you so often refuse to answer a direct question that is relevant and nicely posed, while asserting it to be a "personal attack?" This is the most obvious dodge and silliest issue you've ever deployed that tactic over.
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by Audie »

Philip wrote:
"East is east, west is west, never the twain shall meet"
Sounds like a line in some groovy, New Age poem. But the reality of how things really ARE, does not change with geography, nor with whatever person considering or thinking about that reality. There is not Eastern truth and then Western truth. There is merely TRUTH that stands on its own. And how one PERCEIVES truth has absolutely nothing to do with the actuality of that truth!
The line is from Kipling.
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by Audie »

Philip wrote:
Audie: I need to sit with an actual keyboard for a proper reply. Im not dodging or playing poor me.
Philip: Great! Because I sincerely am curious and want to understand. :)
Audie: Start in two directions: drop some of the nonsense about me personally, and, see if you think eating an animal is ever immoral under any circumstances.

If no to both then sincerity wont get you there.
Wow, Audie - so THAT is what you consider a "proper" reply? More like a dodge! First place, no one said one thing about you personally! I made statements about evolutionists and Darwinists. I did not assert you have no "moral compass" - nor do think Darwinists have no moral compass - many are quite respectful and caring. But your moral code, how you think you and others should treat our fellow human being is not an idea that evolution or Darwinism can explain - because they do not deal with MORALITY. Do you disagree with that? I am not speaking of the morality of those whom believe in evolution as an unguided process. But when I ask, where is the morality in Darwinism, you get upset? Do you not agree that evolution is natural and simply how things occurred? Does any part of what those evolutionary processes included bother you? Clearly, you realize that carnivores and omnivores must eat the flesh of other animals - it's natural, how things have always been, right? But now you are asserting that ONE omnivore (man!), if he (humanely) kills and eats an animal for food, that is somehow wrong?

Audie, what I'm getting at is, HOW DID YOU DECIDE it's wrong ("barbaric) for men to kill and eat animals? Because if all man really is, is a very successful specie, amongst many others, and he does precisely what other species do, WHY do you say that is wrong? That's what I'm trying to understand - why do you believe this? Why is it wrong for man to kill and consume an animal, but not wrong for animals to do so? And do you believe it's just wrong for YOU, or also for everyone else, and why? You must admit that scientists never discuss the habits that made species successful, in terms of morality? Most would laugh and scoff at this. And if it is wrong for man, WHO says so? Some agree. Most of humanity does not.

Audie, saying this is a personal attack is 1) a huge dodge and 2) makes me wonder why you don't just say what you think in truly addressing my questions? It was you, btw, who asserted a common habit of man (killing and eating animals) is barbaric? But you refuse to answer by saying I'm attacking you and asserting you to be hypocrite? Immoral? No, at worse, I would merely say you developed your moral sense of this issue on your own, and independent of behaviors you might think evolution included - which I find fascinating. Why do you always think people are out to get you? And why do you so often refuse to answer a direct question that is relevant and nicely posed, while asserting it to be a "personal attack?" This is the most obvious dodge and silliest issue you've ever deployed that tactic over.
Come on phil, i only read the first line and you are already off the
rails,

There is no dodge, no excuse, I just dont have time for it. If you dont want to
consider the thought I tossed out dont. But you've evidently turned a sentence into
some baroque, nay, Rococo structure based on your rather unflattering imagibation.

I will get to the topic tomorrow, meantime you might delete that outlandish post before I actually read it all.
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Re: Hallucinogenic drugs advice

Post by JButler »

Philip wrote:With so much potential for IMMEDIATE negatives coming from even short term drug experiments, as one is altering their reality and perceptions, why risk that? As for the uncertainty of long-term impact, again, why the unnecessary risks - even if it MIGHT turn out to be negligible. Not to mention, illegal drugs all come with great uncertainty as to their safety and ingredients. Are you both a chemist and a pharmacist, able to certify the precise ingredients, what something was cut with, etc? If not, you would have absolutely NO idea of what you are ingesting or its results. The manufacture of illegal drugs is ALL about the profit and not safety. Illegal drugs are cut with all manner of potentially toxic substances. Only the naive and stupid would ever risk taking them.
I was in law enforcement for three decades and saw a lot of substances used by teens to get high or whatever. Philip's post is right on the mark as most drugs are contaminated with all kinds of garbage which you'd never dream of putting in your body if you knew what they were. One of my cousins died at age 16 from an illicit drug combo.

It only takes one time to wreck your brain or your life. Curiosity is a good trait if directed properly but bad if not. My sister had bad curiosity and tried a lot of illicit drugs just to see what they'd do. She'll tell you she's very fortunate to still be alive.
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.
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