Masturbation

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tunde1992
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Masturbation

#1

Post by tunde1992 » Mon May 21, 2012 1:13 pm

SO, YES OR NO?
i have heard some pretty good arguments from both sides.
In all honesty i have done it before :shock: only because i felt like if i didn't i"d break down and explode :(
i felt relieved of stress when i finished .. but at the same time felt a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach
like i just murdered someone :|
andi am 14 yrs old in the teenage years
i cant even look at an "attractive" girl witout wel.. lets jus tsay ..get blood rushing to my private organs
and i dont even want it .. oH God help me i need some asnwers y[-o<
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
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Re: Masturbation

#2

Post by Ivellious » Mon May 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Two things: Getting an erection is, more often than not, NOT your choice. Especially during puberty. If anyone suggests that getting an erection is a sin, they are insane.

Second, I can't speak for Christianity as a whole, but I (as an outsider) see no reason why masturbating is so evil.

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Re: Masturbation

#3

Post by Reactionary » Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 am

Ivellious wrote:Two things: Getting an erection is, more often than not, NOT your choice. Especially during puberty.
This is true. Don't blame yourself for something that is out of your control.
tunde1992 wrote:In all honesty i have done it before :shock:
Nothing to be ashamed of.
tunde1992 wrote:only because i felt like if i didn't i"d break down and explode :(
I understand. When you are overwhelmed by hormones, it may be better to relieve yourself and stop them from torturing you. It will certainly reduce unwanted erections, which can cause awkward situations in public.
tunde1992 wrote:i felt relieved of stress when i finished .. but at the same time felt a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach
Regarding that "bad feeling"... I wouldn't call it guilt as some do. Your body experiences a hormonal turmoil during sex (and male body doesn't distinguish masturbation from sex), so after you "finish", the tension disappears and you suddenly lose the motivation that led to masturbation. So since you're apparently new to that, you're confused. The rest of the story is nothing that you don't know of already - sex is meant to be emotional as well, not only physical. So, you feel emptiness because masturbation lacks the emotional dimension.

Have a look at this thread: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 8&start=15
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Masturbation

#4

Post by Dallas » Tue May 22, 2012 6:57 am

I think you're in your first or second year of puberty, so no need to sweat it just yet. Now as for myself, I have never mastubated to the point of ejaculation. I always felt bad "playing" with myself and stopped in the middle of it.

Now let's get this straight, the ACT of masturbation is not a sin. It's the lust that's involved in mastubation. For instance: most males don't mastubate looking at a toilet, they usually have some sort of image in their brain or in front of them to "motivate" themselves. Circumstances change when you are married though, so look forward to that :). The thing I can suggest is try to avoid the lusts. Even though you are just starting, it helps if you avoid it as soon as possible because you won't do it as much when you get older. Things are subject to change on that last sentence though... Find hobbies or other things to get your mind off it. Find a HEALTHY escape, don't make the hole deeper by doing other things that are not good for you. Other than that, don't let it get to your head too much. It's just the beginning, you have the rest of your life to fight this tempation so good luck ;)
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Re: Masturbation

#5

Post by Dallas » Tue May 22, 2012 7:01 am

Ivellious wrote:Second, I can't speak for Christianity as a whole, but I (as an outsider) see no reason why masturbating is so evil.

The act of masturbation is not a sin. I can't think of anywhere in the bible that suggests that it is. The lust involved, however, is a sin. Let's be honest; can you masturbate with nothing on your mind? :) I don't think so. Now, if you're married there is no problem with masturbation. You are lusting after your own wife...hopefully. That just shows me you want your spouse more than ever. That's true love :heart:
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Re: Masturbation

#6

Post by Reactionary » Tue May 22, 2012 9:25 am

Dallas wrote:Now let's get this straight, the ACT of masturbation is not a sin. It's the lust that's involved in mastubation.
Dallas wrote:The act of masturbation is not a sin. I can't think of anywhere in the bible that suggests that it is. The lust involved, however, is a sin. Let's be honest; can you masturbate with nothing on your mind? :) I don't think so.
Who says that masturbation necessarily involves lust? I think you're confusing imagination with lust. I wrote a post about the issue not long ago here:
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 15#p120660
Dallas wrote:Even though you are just starting, it helps if you avoid it as soon as possible because you won't do it as much when you get older.
How old? 50, 60?
Dallas wrote:Find a HEALTHY escape, don't make the hole deeper by doing other things that are not good for you.
Are you saying that masturbation is unhealthy? Where did you get that from?
Dallas wrote:Other than that, don't let it get to your head too much. It's just the beginning, you have the rest of your life to fight this tempation so good luck ;)
Sounds like one very happy and joyful life. :roll:
Dallas wrote:Now, if you're married there is no problem with masturbation. You are lusting after your own wife...hopefully. That just shows me you want your spouse more than ever. That's true love :heart:
How long have you been married, Dallas?
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Masturbation

#7

Post by Dallas » Tue May 22, 2012 10:19 am

How old? 50, 60?
How bout before you get married.
Are you saying that masturbation is unhealthy? Where did you get that from?
No, quite the contrary, it's really good for you from what I hear.
Sounds like one very happy and joyful life.
Oh trust me, it is :)
How long have you been married, Dallas
Too long ;)
Who says that masturbation necessarily involves lust? I think you're confusing imagination with lust.
Could you elaborate on this one? I see no difference between the two. I say this because when you "imagine" a sexual act, nude female, etc... you must have a reference for the looks of that woman. This would mean pulling an image out of the brain and placing it on her body; which to me is lust. Because you want that particular person, thing or what have you? This is how I interpret this though...
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Re: Masturbation

#8

Post by Reactionary » Tue May 22, 2012 12:45 pm

Dallas wrote:
How old? 50, 60?
How bout before you get married.
Things don't magically get right when one gets married. In fact, they often become more difficult and challenging. A relationship evolves over time as two people become closer to each other. I've found that most people who idealize marriage are single, you know.
Dallas wrote:
Are you saying that masturbation is unhealthy? Where did you get that from?
No, quite the contrary, it's really good for you from what I hear.
I thought you preached otherwise... Or you're being ironic, I can't distinguish. I don't think it's really good or bad, unless one's addicted to it. I realize that some people don't need it, but some may need it to relieve their sexual tension from time to time, so it doesn't cloud their judgement.
Dallas wrote:
Sounds like one very happy and joyful life.
Oh trust me, it is :)
Then you must have undergone a drastic change during the last month. For on 30 April, you were complaining about your life being "crappy" and not wanting to live anymore. Remember?
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =2&t=37399
Dallas wrote:
How long have you been married, Dallas
Too long ;)
You know, I didn't mean to condescend, I've just been trolling you a bit as I see that you're a little too idealistic. All that what you write may seem great in theory, but real life is something else. Not everything happens according to our hopes and expectations.
Dallas wrote:
Who says that masturbation necessarily involves lust? I think you're confusing imagination with lust.
Could you elaborate on this one? I see no difference between the two. I say this because when you "imagine" a sexual act, nude female, etc... you must have a reference for the looks of that woman. This would mean pulling an image out of the brain and placing it on her body; which to me is lust. Because you want that particular person, thing or what have you? This is how I interpret this though...
Who says that you want the person? You're only imagining. People imagine all kinds of stuff - doesn't mean they'd act upon them. Apparently you didn't read the post I linked you to. So here it goes:
Reactionary wrote:I was saying that the intention is what matters. We entertain all kinds of thoughts in our minds, and while we certainly look to put some of them into practice, some of them are destined to remain in our heads. And I'm talking generally, not only regarding sexual thoughts. For instance, I'd really like to own a luxury car, a British or a German one. I sometimes entertain thoughts about myself driving one. When I see someone driving one, I think to myself like, "Wow, lucky him/her. If only I had..." I'm sure you're familiar with that feeling. 8)

Now, if we used the same criteria that some use to interpret James 1:15, it would turn out that I crave for another person's possession. Which is not true. If I came across an unlocked BMW with its keys in the ignition, of course I wouldn't sit inside and drive off. Not only because that would be illegal, but because it would be unethical.

My point is, "conceiving lust" is a debatable term - some interpret it as entertaining thoughts, while some, including me, as giving thoughts consideration in real life. I'll mention my previous analogy again - if you follow a car trying to find out where its owner lives, so you can come back by night and lockpick it, then of course it's something completely different. That's an example of a sin in its developing stage.

So back to reality - it's natural to be interested in women. It's natural to think about things (in this case, persons) we're interested in. There's a mechanism in the human psyche that needs us to be indifferent to a thought so it can fade away. It's counter-intuitive, but for some reason it works that way. For instance, if you say to yourself, "I won't think about polar bears for five minutes", guess what'll be on your mind. Until when? Until you don't care anymore, that's when your mind will wander off to something else. I had this problem personally - my mind was focused on a bodily function that works automatically, but not when we think about it - then it becomes manual. When I stopped caring and relaxed myself, the problem went away. So when you see an attractive woman, if you think, "Oh no! I must divert my mind away, or I'm going to sin!", your mind will either focus on her, or your attempts to stop thinking about her, and the latter process could burden your mind and potentially even cause OCD-like symptoms.

So you see, that's the problem that I have with the dominant interpretation of James 1:15. Thoughts and images on our mind are not completely under our control - it's due to the co-existence of mind and matter. Intentions, on the other hand, are always under our control (unless we're under certain substances, but that's another story). So to try and control what comes on our minds would mean to fight against our brains. And you definitely don't want that. Your brain should be your ally.

Therefore, I believe that one should work on self control and fine-tune one's conscience, and have faith in them. The point is to grow mentally strong enough to control the physical desires. Once you do so, you stop fearing that your thought could grow into sin, because you know that you're the one in charge of yourself. When it comes down to temptations, I've never lost control. As I had said, I can clearly distinguish what's an acceptable option to pursue, and what has to remain inside my mind.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Masturbation

#9

Post by Dallas » Tue May 22, 2012 7:56 pm

Things don't magically get right when one gets married. In fact, they often become more difficult and challenging. A relationship evolves over time as two people become closer to each other. I've found that most people who idealize marriage are single, you know.
Of course, I'm just saying you shouldn't want anyone else aside from your spouse. Yet, I never took in consideration of the whole "Single person outlook on marriage dilemma." :)
I thought you preached otherwise... Or you're being ironic, I can't distinguish. I don't think it's really good or bad, unless one's addicted to it. I realize that some people don't need it, but some may need it to relieve their sexual tension from time to time, so it doesn't cloud their judgement.
I really can't say for myself that one would feel relieved after the point of ejaculation. I hate waking up in the middle of the night finding my underwear wet... so that might be a cause to why I don't do it :oops: . However, I do understand that some people have to do it because of circumstances in life. It makes them feel better and makes them not "lust" as much to the opposite sex, no?
Then you must have undergone a drastic change during the last month. For on 30 April, you were complaining about your life being "crappy" and not wanting to live anymore. Remember?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37399
I wouldn't say drastic, but I would say grew a little more maturer. I don't see how this fits in the particular conversation though lol. Troll maybe....?
You know, I didn't mean to condescend, I've just been trolling you a bit as I see that you're a little too idealistic. All that what you write may seem great in theory, but real life is something else. Not everything happens according to our hopes and expectations.
I know this. Everything always sounds better on paper, but in reality it never happens like that.
Who says that you want the person? You're only imagining. People imagine all kinds of stuff - doesn't mean they'd act upon them. Apparently you didn't read the post I linked you to. So here it goes:
I did read this before you posted the actual reference. I just don't see a difference between the two when it comes to the masturbation aspect. This might be too much, but hopefully it gets my point across:

Let's say I don't like somebody, to the point of hate. Yet, being the person as I am, I don't act that I may hate he/she. However, in my mind I'm imagining/thinking of murdering them. Would that be wrong or just another thought? That might be a little extreme, but I hope it gets my point across. Doesn't Jesus say if you think of it you've committed murder already (Matthew 5:21-26)? Or am I taking that out of context? Nevertheless, even if the person doesn't "want" I still see it as lust and that's just one thing we disagree on.
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Re: Masturbation

#10

Post by Ivellious » Tue May 22, 2012 9:48 pm

Dallas, if thinking about something is equivalent to doing, then in my short time on Earth I've committed suicide, murdered, fornicated, etc etc. too many times to count. Something tells me I'm not alone in that. It seems ludicrous to say that every time someone gets emotional or hormonal that they are committing sin. Especially considering 90% of the time it is not under your control to feel certain ways or emotions. Whether you act on them or not is more under your control.

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Re: Masturbation

#11

Post by Dallas » Wed May 23, 2012 5:00 am

Ivellious wrote:Dallas, if thinking about something is equivalent to doing, then in my short time on Earth I've committed suicide, murdered, fornicated, etc etc. too many times to count. Something tells me I'm not alone in that. It seems ludicrous to say that every time someone gets emotional or hormonal that they are committing sin. Especially considering 90% of the time it is not under your control to feel certain ways or emotions. Whether you act on them or not is more under your control.
I wouldn't say every time emotions/hormones arise it is your fault. However, I do see it as your own responsibility to try to stop thinking about it, which you mentioned above. At the age he's at, I don't see any "wrong" in these emotions just yet. After a few years I do think it starts to be wrong to an extent. All I'm saying from experience at school is when people masturbate for pleasure, they tend to degrade women. Let me clarify this a little.

If you are masturbating for your own health, emotions, etc... then I see no wrong in it; you're doing it to be healthy (although emotions/hormones still play a role here). On the other hand, when you/they start doing it for pleasure is where I think it draws the line. Reason being, when I see guys masturbate (not literally :) ) I tend to see them degrade women and only want a female for sex, instead of the woman for who they actually are. That's where the whole act of masturbation gets me upset. Like I said, I have a different opinion on this subject compared to the next. I would rather be safe until my marriage night for any sort of pleasure of the sort.
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Re: Masturbation

#12

Post by BryanH » Wed May 23, 2012 6:39 am

I wouldn't say every time emotions/hormones arise it is your fault. However, I do see it as your own responsibility to try to stop thinking about it, which you mentioned above. At the age he's at, I don't see any "wrong" in these emotions just yet. After a few years I do think it starts to be wrong to an extent. All I'm saying from experience at school is when people masturbate for pleasure, they tend to degrade women. Let me clarify this a little.

If you are masturbating for your own health, emotions, etc... then I see no wrong in it; you're doing it to be healthy (although emotions/hormones still play a role here). On the other hand, when you/they start doing it for pleasure is where I think it draws the line. Reason being, when I see guys masturbate (not literally :) ) I tend to see them degrade women and only want a female for sex, instead of the woman for who they actually are. That's where the whole act of masturbation gets me upset. Like I said, I have a different opinion on this subject compared to the next. I would rather be safe until my marriage night for any sort of pleasure of the sort.
No matter if you masturbate for being healthy,emotions etc etc or own pleasure, the outcome is the same: you do get pleasure out of it. And of course that any thing/action taken to an extreme will cause problems. Too much of everything can cause problems: too much cake, too much sleep, too much alcohol, etc etc...

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Re: Masturbation

#13

Post by Reactionary » Wed May 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Dallas wrote:Of course, I'm just saying you shouldn't want anyone else aside from your spouse. Yet, I never took in consideration of the whole "Single person outlook on marriage dilemma." :)
Again, I never wrote about "wanting" someone.
Dallas wrote:
I thought you preached otherwise... Or you're being ironic, I can't distinguish. I don't think it's really good or bad, unless one's addicted to it. I realize that some people don't need it, but some may need it to relieve their sexual tension from time to time, so it doesn't cloud their judgement.
I really can't say for myself that one would feel relieved after the point of ejaculation. I hate waking up in the middle of the night finding my underwear wet... so that might be a cause to why I don't do it :oops: . However, I do understand that some people have to do it because of circumstances in life. It makes them feel better and makes them not "lust" as much to the opposite sex, no?
What you described happening, happens primarily because of unrelieved sexual tension, you know.
Dallas wrote:
Then you must have undergone a drastic change during the last month. For on 30 April, you were complaining about your life being "crappy" and not wanting to live anymore. Remember?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37399
I wouldn't say drastic, but I would say grew a little more maturer. I don't see how this fits in the particular conversation though lol. Troll maybe....?
No troll at all. You claimed that living like this and that was joyful, and it seemed like you spoke from your own experience, so I reminded you that not long ago you complained about your life being "crappy".
Dallas wrote:Let's say I don't like somebody, to the point of hate. Yet, being the person as I am, I don't act that I may hate he/she. However, in my mind I'm imagining/thinking of murdering them. Would that be wrong or just another thought? That might be a little extreme, but I hope it gets my point across. Doesn't Jesus say if you think of it you've committed murder already (Matthew 5:21-26)? Or am I taking that out of context? Nevertheless, even if the person doesn't "want" I still see it as lust and that's just one thing we disagree on.
It's not the same. "Hate" is not a natural emotion, at least not in the same sense as what you call "lust", actually normal interest and attraction to the opposite sex. Your hormones don't drive you to hating someone, but they do drive you to being attracted to someone. Do you see the difference?
Dallas wrote:I wouldn't say every time emotions/hormones arise it is your fault. However, I do see it as your own responsibility to try to stop thinking about it, which you mentioned above.
As a popular meme would say... One does not simply stop thinking about something. That's what I wrote about in my post.
Dallas wrote:If you are masturbating for your own health, emotions, etc... then I see no wrong in it; you're doing it to be healthy (although emotions/hormones still play a role here). On the other hand, when you/they start doing it for pleasure is where I think it draws the line. Reason being, when I see guys masturbate (not literally :) ) I tend to see them degrade women and only want a female for sex, instead of the woman for who they actually are. That's where the whole act of masturbation gets me upset.
So, you think that women never masturbate? y:D

Irrelevant, never mind. :ewink:
Dallas wrote:Like I said, I have a different opinion on this subject compared to the next. I would rather be safe until my marriage night for any sort of pleasure of the sort.
Personally, I think that, using your strategy of "safety", the marriage "night" would actually be more like a marriage minute. :pound:

If you know what I mean... :whistle:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Masturbation

#14

Post by Dallas » Thu May 24, 2012 5:15 pm

What you described happening, happens primarily because of unrelieved sexual tension, you know.
I know, I just don't like it.
It's not the same. "Hate" is not a natural emotion, at least not in the same sense as what you call "lust", actually normal interest and attraction to the opposite sex. Your hormones don't drive you to hating someone, but they do drive you to being attracted to someone. Do you see the difference?
Yes I see the difference. I'm just not getting how imagining a "scenario" in your head is different than lust. But lust isn't a natural emotion too, it's just one of those things humans develop from sin I believe.
As a popular meme would say... One does not simply stop thinking about something. That's what I wrote about in my post.
That's why I posted earlier you should find a healthy hobby. Healthy being keeping your mind off whatever/whomever is on your mind (i.e. read a book, quote Scripture, work out, etc...)
So, you think that women never masturbate?
Not at first lol. I slightly knew about it, but never to the extent of a "big finish" like us men lol.
Personally, I think that, using your strategy of "safety", the marriage "night" would actually be more like a marriage minute. :pound:

If you know what I mean... :whistle:
It's funny because this topic came up during study hall one day. I told them I don't masturbate and they laughed and said you're going to have a quick "finish." :) Males by the way, this would never be discussed with a female lol
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