Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

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Dallas
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Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

Wednesday I am teaching to my Youth group. I have what I want to talk about. I'm going to talk about the healing of Christ. How Christ can take your troubles away and you can become clean.

So, here's what I need. I want to do an analogy about good works and faith. Here's my analogy "Have you guys ever heard of good works get's you to heaven?" Knowing them they're going to say yes, or raise their hands. Then I'm going to tell them how hard it is to get to heaven on good works alone. "Here's how difficult it is to get to heaven on good works alone. There's a catch though, you only get one chance! Take a ladder descending from heaven, it's a very weak ladder by the way. It has a max weight limit of 5lbs. Knowing yourself you're going to try to climb it, even though your a 500lb fat man. Remember, you only get one chance!" Then I'm going to go on and say. "So, you've attempted to climb the ladder, and you failed. Now you are doomed to hell. But! There came a Man 2000 years ago who died and resurrected to give you a new way. This new way is not a ladder, or stairs. No working is needed because he's done all the work for you. All you have to do is say "YES!" And you will be lifted up to the place where the King awaits."

I heard from someone Jesus gave this analogy, or a similar one. Can you guys give me the Old testament and New testament location. Please!
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jlay
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by jlay »

I don't recall ladder analogy in the scriptures.

Analogies can be good, but always fail in some area, that is why they are analogies.
When you say your youth group, I am assuming that you are one of the youths?
Just curious, how did this arrangement come about?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

I agree with jlay that analogies eventually break down. That said, they can be good learning tools. Since most people think that good works get you into heaven, you could structure your analogy something like this:

YOU: ''Let's say that you need to get 1000 points to get into heaven, and that each good deed will earn you some points. Now, let me hear some good deeds, class!''

CLASS: ''I go to church almost every Sunday!''

YOU: ''Great! that's half-a-point! Next?''

CLASS: ''My parents always tithe 10%!''

YOU: ''God bless them! Another half point! Any one else?

CLASS: ''We always help this old lady cross the street when we see her!''

YOU: ''Wow! so kind of you! Another quarter point!''

...and so on. They will quickly get the message that no amount of good deeds will get them to heaven.

You'll have to flesh it out a bit. Good luck.

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Dallas
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

jlay wrote:I don't recall ladder analogy in the scriptures.

Analogies can be good, but always fail in some area, that is why they are analogies.
When you say your youth group, I am assuming that you are one of the youths?
Just curious, how did this arrangement come about?
Yes, I am a youth :P. The arrangement came about when I told my youth pastor that I wanted to preach the Gospel during my graduation party. He said I should do wednesday first. So after 3 weeks I told him. Okay i'm ready when this section that you are teaching is over. So the date was april 4. I was given that date 2 weeks ago. I procrastinate :(
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B. W.
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by B. W. »

Hi Dallas, here are the verses...

Gen 28:11 "He came to a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.
Gen 28:12 He had a dream, and behold, a ladder was set on the earth with its top reaching to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
Gen 28:13 And behold, the LORD stood above it and said, "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants.
Gen 28:14 "Your descendants will also be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 28:15 "Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."
Gen 28:16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place, and I did not know it." NASB

In my opinion, I would seek to change my analogy for this reason: there may be large people in the audience who may take offense and/or you could be wrongly labeled as something you are not. That is the climate of the times we live in. So we need to be wise in presenting analogies.

Here is one:

Think of works as - bribery - done in order to get away with it…

Such acts will not bode well with a Just Judge and Jury who can’t be bought

How do we attempt to bribe God, make deals, to get away with something we do that is ethically wrong?

Do our works scorn ethical morality?

Or do we try to earn favor by a bribe of good deeds to negate the bad one does.

There once was a man who tried to weigh is good words against his bad. He looked, pondered each move. "If I do this bad, then two good deeds will outweigh it and that God loves me, God will see my Good outweighs my bad and must accept me," he said to himself.

Then one day, he placed two good works on the scale and as he placed his one bad, he tripped, fell into the naughty scales trough, and died. Finding himself in the spirit before the Judge of the Universe, the judge noticed that the weight of the scale far, by far, outweighed any good this man wrought.

The Just Judge of the Universe said to the man, "Your heart is wicked in its attempt to bribe me, instead of accepting my free pardon and my cleansing wash of the soul, you planned two good deeds to outweigh one bad, done in order to remain unchanged – therefore the weight of yourself convicts you of your true motives impure."

Isaiah 26:10 BBE, "Even if you are kind to the evil-doer, he will not go after righteousness; even in the land of the upright he will still go on in his wrongdoing, and will not see the glory of the Lord." BBE

...or read Isaiah 26:10 NKJV...
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Hmm and did you bribe us to do your homework for you? That's another good analogy as well too but brother you may still use mine :lol:

I like to help those learn to present the gospel - so if you like - tweak it to fit your audience... and confront them at the end with the gospel of Christ...in your own words. :D
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Dallas
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

I'm confused at the moment. What is wrong with my analogy? Honestly I think it's a good analogy :P. I understand that it is going to fail in some areas, but what is it missing? Is it offensive because the weight? Sorry, just confused. Thanks for your guys's help though. I'm taking it into account too.
B. W. wrote:Hi Dallas, here are the verses...

<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.11" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.11" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:11</a> "He came to a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.
<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.12" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.12" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:12</a> He had a dream, and behold, a ladder was set on the earth with its top reaching to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.13" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.13" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:13</a> And behold, the LORD stood above it and said, "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants.
<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.14" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.14" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:14</a> "Your descendants will also be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.15" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.15" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:15</a> "Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."
<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2028.16" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 28.16" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 28:16</a> Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place, and I did not know it." NASB
Thank you so much for those verses.
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B. W.
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by B. W. »

Yes, Dallas, you have a good analogy; however, since you are a Christian Believer, during these times we must be aware of what we say. A non-Christian who is overweight may wrongly accuse you of bigotry or something along that line. It would be better to avoid that battle altogether as it could develop into more than you intended.

There are non-Christians out there spoiling for a fight and looking over everything we (who take a verbal stand for Christ) say or do. Also, there may be a Christian Believer who may hear you and take offense as well. That is my opinion born from experience in these types of matters and what I stated is only advice. Ultimately it is your call on what you would like to use.
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Dallas
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

B. W. wrote:Yes, Dallas, you have a good analogy; however, since you are a Christian Believer, during these times we must be aware of what we say. A non-Christian who is overweight may wrongly accuse you of bigotry or something along that line. It would be better to avoid that battle altogether as it could develop into more than you intended.

There are non-Christians out there spoiling for a fight and looking over everything we (who take a verbal stand for Christ) say or do. Also, there may be a Christian Believer who may hear you and take offense as well. That is my opinion born from experience in these types of matters and what I stated is only advice. Ultimately it is your call on what you would like to use.
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So, would a brittle ladder be better? Like if I said for good works to get you into heaven, you have to climb this ladder that's so weak, that one touch will break it? Along those lines? That doesn't seem to me a little offensive, and it still get's my point around. Or better yet! A ladder that never ends. No matter how many good works you do, you'll never be "good" enough to get into heaven.
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by jlay »

Just to clarify, what do you mean by the 'healing of Christ?'
Also, you lost me on the fat man. I'm 180 pounds of ripped muscle. :mrgreen:
There may be a better way to handle the weight issue, such as equating sin to a weight we unncessessarily carry.
In an analogy you want to make sure there is a clear main point that is analogous. In this one we have a ladder that is weak, and we don't know why its weak. We have someone who is fat, with no explanation. And a hell that is sentenced for failing to ascend a ladder, that is impossible to ascend. So, yes there are problems with the analogy to put it candidly. That doesn't mean we can't work with it, and improve it.

Jesus said,
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt. 5:20
That might be a good verse to build around. Although we want to be careful pulling a verse out of its context. We always want the Bible to build the case, as opposed to building the case and then trying to fit in the verses.
"Have you guys ever heard of good works get's you to heaven?" Knowing them they're going to say yes, or raise their hands. Then I'm going to tell them how hard it is to get to heaven on good works alone. "Here's how difficult it is to get to heaven on good works alone. There's a catch though, you only get one chance! Take a ladder descending from heaven, it's a very weak ladder by the way. It has a max weight limit of 5lbs. Knowing yourself you're going to try to climb it, even though your a 500lb fat man. Remember, you only get one chance!" Then I'm going to go on and say. "So, you've attempted to climb the ladder, and you failed. Now you are doomed to hell. But! There came a Man 2000 years ago who died and resurrected to give you a new way. This new way is not a ladder, or stairs. No working is needed because he's done all the work for you. All you have to do is say "YES!" And you will be lifted up to the place where the King awaits."
Also, can you give some background on why you are presuming what they think regarding getting in to heaven?

You need to either have a sound topical subject. (Salvation, heaven, Hell, Spiritual warfare, etc.) Or, have an expositional teaching. I prefer the later. That is reading the text, and then extracting the truths as they are contained and revealed from a sound exegetical method.

IMO, heaven is not so much a sin issue as it is a son issue. Jesus has taken care of sin. So, people who reject Christ, do so having their sins paid for. They choose to stand in the sin that Christ paid for. Someone who thinks they can deed their way to heaven says they don't accept that their sins are paid. They attempt to merit God's favor by religious activity. The way is that God is Immanuel, God with us. He descended, because we were incapable of ascending. (Eph. 4:8-9, John 3:13)
Perhaps there in lies the topic. That being that 'getting to heaven' is really a wordly ambition. "How do we get to heaven?" And then tear down that notion. Sadly this represents the shallow depths of Christianity today. "Say a prayer, walk the ilse, get your ticket punched and your fire insurance. Now, back to life." You could really apply this mentality to many religions that seek to merit favor in the here after. But is that really the gospel as revealed in the scriptures? Hardly. So maybe you could focus on, "What is the Gospel?"

2 Cor. 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Dallas
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

What I'm going to talk about is how Jesus heals the broken. I'm going to give a short testimony when I get up there. I'm going to tell them how i'm so emotionally attached to video games, and the problems that occurred from it. It's an unhealthy attachment, that ruined my life. For example: the past summer every day I would wake up around 9:00 a.m. and I would play the game till around 2:00 a.m. the next morning. I used it to block out everyone who did wrong to me, and to stop the pain. Then I'm going to tell them there was a cure for me and a cure for them. Jesus the Son of Man. This is my main point. I was just going to use the good works to heaven as a little example that no matter how "good" you are you still fall short of the Glory of God.

Would it be smarter for me to use a path instead of a ladder? Like, you're in a forest and there are two trails. One trail is getting to heaven through good works. Grass so high that's hard to walk in, muddy, you have to "work" your way to get to heaven, but you get lost because how hard it is to see the trail. Or you can take the other path. The path that Jesus Christ has made. The one were there is no work required, besides taking the first step to accept Him. Does that not sound better than the ladder?
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by jlay »

I'd love to be able to sit down face to face and work some of this out with you.

Sounds like what you are wanting to do is give more of a personal testimony. I think those are great, but that is different than teaching a class.
If you are giving your testimony then you need to share how Christ's story became your story. If your story focuses on your healing process, then there are certainly ample examples of this in the scripture to reflect on. You just need to be clear, because when some hear 'healing' they will presume physical sickness and not necessarily spiritual strongholds as you are speaking of.
So in terms of the analogy, how do you relate your testimony to people trying to work their way to God?



I've got a cousin in the mansfield area BTW.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Dallas
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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

jlay wrote:I'd love to be able to sit down face to face and work some of this out with you.

Sounds like what you are wanting to do is give more of a personal testimony. I think those are great, but that is different than teaching a class.
If you are giving your testimony then you need to share how Christ's story became your story. If your story focuses on your healing process, then there are certainly ample examples of this in the scripture to reflect on. You just need to be clear, because when some hear 'healing' they will presume physical sickness and not necessarily spiritual strongholds as you are speaking of.
So in terms of the analogy, how do you relate your testimony to people trying to work their way to God?



I've got a cousin in the mansfield area BTW.

I don't know :(. I'm still trying to work this out with myself. Should I just leave that example out then? I want people to come to know Christ that night, especially a few of my friends. I might know your cousin ;) I want my testimony to relate to what I'm going to talk about. How Christ can heal any wound that's been inflicted on you (mentally and emotionally). How when there is no one else there for you, He is always there. How He can make you feel wanted for once in your life. The biggest thing Christ gives me is a sense of Love. I finally have someone in my life who says they Love me and would die for me. Because I do not get it that much at my house. I want them to know, no matter what happens in life, Christ will always be there for them.
Vigilate super me Dominus

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Re: Help me. I have only till WEDNESDAY!

Post by Dallas »

Everything went well today. Two people came to know Christ through my message. So let's rejoice to God. The High and Mighty.
Vigilate super me Dominus

Down the road i'll hit many bumps, but as long as you're driving Lord, i'll be fine.
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