Is it possible?

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Re: Is it possible?

#16

Post by Reactionary » Fri May 11, 2012 6:44 am

CeT-To wrote:Is it possible to completely halt masturbation?
Possible, yes. The question is what happens after.
Danieltwotwenty wrote:*edit* I would also like to add that I don't think the actual act is sinful but rather who or what you are thinking about during. 2 Peter 2:14 Matt. 5:28
I'm aware of the latter quote. I've thought about it thoroughly, and I think we often misunderstand it. If you imagine certain "scenarios" ( :ewink: ) in your head, that doesn't mean you would carry out what you think about in real life, if you had an opportunity to do so. I've worked on myself, and I can clearly distinguish what's realistic, and what has to remain inside my mind.
CeT-To wrote:LOL which is generally harder stopping masturbation or smoking?
I don't know, I've never smoked.
DRDS wrote:I really want to weigh in on this. This by far is the worst sin problem I struggle with. But at the same time I don't know really if it truly is a sin.

The thing I see with this, it to me is almost impossible to conquer in the kind of world we live in. If I for instance were to get rid of my television, computer and anything in my house with pictures of pretty women I still have to go out in public where I see attractive women. I can't live in a bubble the rest of my life.
I agree. You're a sexual being, and you can't run away from that.
DRDS wrote:one thing I do kinda like is they demand all their women to cover themselves up to not be a such a sexual temptation to men.
So, you'd want women to cover themselves up so that you don't get aroused? Isn't that selfish, and discriminating? We're supposed to be a free society which doesn't order people what to wear, especially not in such a humiliating way. What if a woman faces similar problems like you because she's attracted to men on the street? Should we cover up as well, or should only women do so because they're women?

I think the first step you need to make if you want to find a wife is to change your view on women.
Most of them don't like being thought of as sexual objects, you know. :fyi:
DRDS wrote:Something I think most women these days need to take into consideration that they have such massive power with their looks and the way they present themselves.

They need to stop abusing that power, because currently they abuse it like the worst of tyrants. They to me are as every bit as guilty as the men who indulge in viewing them.
So, if someone rapes an "indecently" dressed woman, she would be just as to blame as him, according to you? :scratch:
DRDS wrote:The problem is I tend to see most of the women I'm attracted to either in church or places where most people normally don't go to find attractive women. Which in a way makes things even more difficult for me.
What do you consider "being attracted to a woman"? Why would you run from that, I don't understand. I think you avoid contact with women because you're in fear of "committing an adultery in your heart", so you don't know enough about them, hence your previous comments which could be even interpreted as sexist. Now add abstinence from relieving your sexual energy, and you get a counter effect. You become "tempted" much more than you should.
DRDS wrote:And as far as my doubts on masturbation even being a sin I don't know why God would allow something that actually IMPROVES a person's health to be sinful. Studies have shown that men who do this have less stress, and they improve the overall functions of their prostate and unitary tract system.
A man's body doesn't distinguish masturbation from sex. You're talking about positive effects of sex on the human body.
DRDS wrote:And not only that I think masturbation may keep many people from committing undeniable sins (or worse sins) like having sex with your girlfriend before marriage, having sex with a prostitute, having sex with a married women, or raping someone.
I don't see how you can put premarital sex and rape into the same category. :shakehead:
DRDS wrote:Don't get me wrong, I don't want to really do it anyway, I'd love to have a wife but because of my current job and financial woes and the fact I'm having to take care of my dad's parents I can't commit myself to a woman in hopes of being a good provider for her.

And so thus I'm not even dating or seeing any woman right now. I just really hope this economy gets better so I can.
Why would you stop seeing women because of your financial situation? Maybe it'll get better in a year or two. I sure hope you don't intend to get married as soon as you meet a woman you like. Marriage is a lifelong decision.

Secondly, why wouldn't your future wife work to provide for the family, at least until the situation with finances gets better.
Women work these days, you know. :fyi:
Murray wrote:But I feel there are times when it can actually be useful, perhaps like self restraint in a relationship and such.
I don't know, I think too much "self restraint" can harm a person. Sex is, partially, a physical need as well, especially for young people whose hormones are raging. So I think it's safe to relieve excessive sexual tension by masturbating if there's no other option at the given moment. Because if tension is left uncontrolled, it can cloud a person's judgement and force him/her exactly into what (s)he wanted to avoid in the first place - getting into a sexual encounter that (s)he wouldn't have opted for if it wasn't for the hormones. By keeping them balanced, you can avoid DRDS's problem of being "attracted" everywhere and in any time.

I mean, I've read all sorts of "Christian" advice on sexuality (under quotation marks because there was no Biblical support to them), and all I found was "abstinence". When you're a teen, abstain from masturbation. When you get a boyfriend/girlfriend, abstain from longer hugs ( :esurprised: ), kisses ( y#-o ), not to mention sex. So when you marry a person not knowing even what it feels like to kiss them, you're supposed to spend your entire life with them. Again, abstain from contraception, from touching your spouse's sexual organs with your hands ( 8-}2 ), and abstain for certain periods because of... well, for no reason really. Does it ever stop?

Note that I'm not trying to attack a straw man, I'm just saying that there are people who live this way (at least they say so :P ), and tell other people that they'll burn in Hell if they don't start living their way as well. Personally, I think that kind of lifestyle can only lead to mental disorders - paranoia, anxiety and guilt complex to name a few.

So again, there's nothing wrong if you think about women - it's natural. There's nothing wrong if you imagine certain "scenarios" in your head, as long as you know that you wouldn't carry them out in reality. Mind is a powerful thing, but once you learn to control it, you're the one in charge of yourself.
PaulSacramento wrote:A healthy love life is the best cure for masturbation :)
Easier said than done. :pound:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Is it possible?

#17

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Fri May 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
*edit* I would also like to add that I don't think the actual act is sinful but rather who or what you are thinking about during. 2 Peter 2:14 Matt. 5:28
I'm aware of the latter quote. I've thought about it thoroughly, and I think we often misunderstand it. If you imagine certain "scenarios" ( ) in your head, that doesn't mean you would carry out what you think about in real life, if you had an opportunity to do so. I've worked on myself, and I can clearly distinguish what's realistic, and what has to remain inside my mind.
Hi Reactionary

I am a little confused or a bit dense, could you please explain in more detail how you think the verses should be interpreted, are you saying that it is when we look at women lustfully in real life that it becomes sin rather than just imagining them in the act of masturbation?

I think James 1:15 should be taken into consideration, it seems to suggest that thoughts in the mind can grow over time and eventually be acted upon thus becoming sin and then perpetuating the sin can lead to spiritual death.


Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is it possible?

#18

Post by Dallas » Fri May 11, 2012 8:35 pm

I never struggled with masturbation. I always thought it was impure. But God bless you.
Vigilate super me Dominus

Down the road i'll hit many bumps, but as long as you're driving Lord, i'll be fine.

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Re: Is it possible?

#19

Post by Reactionary » Sat May 12, 2012 1:50 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Reactionary

I am a little confused or a bit dense, could you please explain in more detail how you think the verses should be interpreted, are you saying that it is when we look at women lustfully in real life that it becomes sin rather than just imagining them in the act of masturbation?

I think James 1:15 should be taken into consideration, it seems to suggest that thoughts in the mind can grow over time and eventually be acted upon thus becoming sin and then perpetuating the sin can lead to spiritual death.

Dan
No, you're not dense. :mrgreen: I've always had kinda unique views on everything (which is a double-edged sword) and besides, it's a bit challenging for me to explain this in English as I need to carefully express myself regarding this. I'll try to explain in more detail.

I was saying that the intention is what matters. We entertain all kinds of thoughts in our minds, and while we certainly look to put some of them into practice, some of them are destined to remain in our heads. And I'm talking generally, not only regarding sexual thoughts. For instance, I'd really like to own a luxury car, a British or a German one. I sometimes entertain thoughts about myself driving one. When I see someone driving one, I think to myself like, "Wow, lucky him/her. If only I had..." I'm sure you're familiar with that feeling. 8)

Now, if we used the same criteria that some use to interpret James 1:15, it would turn out that I crave for another person's possession. Which is not true. If I came across an unlocked BMW with its keys in the ignition, of course I wouldn't sit inside and drive off. Not only because that would be illegal, but because it would be unethical.

My point is, "conceiving lust" is a debatable term - some interpret it as entertaining thoughts, while some, including me, as giving thoughts consideration in real life. I'll mention my previous analogy again - if you follow a car trying to find out where its owner lives, so you can come back by night and lockpick it, then of course it's something completely different. That's an example of a sin in its developing stage.

So back to reality - it's natural to be interested in women. It's natural to think about things (in this case, persons) we're interested in. There's a mechanism in the human psyche that needs us to be indifferent to a thought so it can fade away. It's counter-intuitive, but for some reason it works that way. For instance, if you say to yourself, "I won't think about polar bears for five minutes", guess what'll be on your mind. Until when? Until you don't care anymore, that's when your mind will wander off to something else. I had this problem personally - my mind was focused on a bodily function that works automatically, but not when we think about it - then it becomes manual. When I stopped caring and relaxed myself, the problem went away. So when you see an attractive woman, if you think, "Oh no! I must divert my mind away, or I'm going to sin!", your mind will either focus on her, or your attempts to stop thinking about her, and the latter process could burden your mind and potentially even cause OCD-like symptoms.

So you see, that's the problem that I have with the dominant interpretation of James 1:15. Thoughts and images on our mind are not completely under our control - it's due to the co-existence of mind and matter. Intentions, on the other hand, are always under our control (unless we're under certain substances, but that's another story). So to try and control what comes on our minds would mean to fight against our brains. And you definitely don't want that. Your brain should be your ally.

Therefore, I believe that one should work on self control and fine-tune one's conscience, and have faith in them. The point is to grow mentally strong enough to control the physical desires. Once you do so, you stop fearing that your thought could grow into sin, because you know that you're the one in charge of yourself. When it comes down to temptations, I've never lost control. As I had said, I can clearly distinguish what's an acceptable option to pursue, and what has to remain inside my mind.
That's how I see things at least. If you have no problems with "unacceptable" thoughts, please don't listen to my advice. :pound:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Is it possible?

#20

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sat May 12, 2012 2:52 pm

Thanks Reactionary

Your a gem and have given me much food for thought.

Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is it possible?

#21

Post by Reactionary » Sat May 12, 2012 3:00 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Thanks Reactionary

Your a gem and have given me much food for thought.

Dan
You're welcome, Dan, but don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not encouraging you to actively think about other women. :D
Unlike me, you're married and it's wonderful to have a life companion. Focus on her and thoughts about others won't even come to your mind. :)
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Is it possible?

#22

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sat May 12, 2012 3:08 pm

The thought never crossed my mind :lol:


Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is it possible?

#23

Post by Reactionary » Sat May 12, 2012 3:18 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:The thought never crossed my mind :lol:
Good. I was just checking. :mrgreen:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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