Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

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Philip
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Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#1

Post by Philip » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm

These new findings, again, dredge up the question of what does it truly mean to be human - despite what Hugh Ross might think?

https://www.foxnews.com/science/neander ... -seashells

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#2

Post by DBowling » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:27 am

Philip wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm
These new findings, again, dredge up the question of what does it truly mean to be human - despite what Hugh Ross might think?

https://www.foxnews.com/science/neander ... -seashells
I'm pretty sure I've given my .02 on this topic elsewhere, but I think both the biological and scriptural criteria for 'humans' are pretty straightforward.

From a biological perspective, all humans on this planet are species homo sapiens sapiens, and all humans are descended from species homo sapiens sapiens who lived in Africa 150,000 - 200,000 years ago. There may (or may not) have been some interbreeding between humans and Neanderthals at some time in the past, but Neanderthals are not common ancestors of all humans on the planet.
Even though Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthals are both hominid species they are still different hominid species.

From a biblical perspective, all humans are image bearers of God.
Genesis 9:6 specifically identifies Noah and his family as 'image bearers of God'. By the time of Noah (and Adam for that matter), Neanderthals had been extinct for over 20,000 years. So species homo sapiens sapiens is the only hominid species that Scripture identifies as an image bearer of God. And Neanderthals were completely unknown to any authors of the Bible.

So even though there may be some behavioral similarities between Neanderthals and pre-Adamic humans (species homo sapiens sapiens), I do not consider Neanderthals to be 'human' from either a biological or Scriptural perspective.

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#3

Post by Philip » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:13 am

What about - and I"m only throwing it out for discussion - but if God created humans prior to Adam (per the view of many Christians) - and those humans were created far prior to an independent of the Adam to Christ lineage, then how do we KNOW that God didn't also created multiple lines of these pre-Adam men?

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#4

Post by DBowling » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:52 am

Philip wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:13 am
What about - and I"m only throwing it out for discussion - but if God created humans prior to Adam (per the view of many Christians) - and those humans were created far prior to an independent of the Adam to Christ lineage, then how do we KNOW that God didn't also created multiple lines of these pre-Adam men?
I happen to believe that God was the Creator of all the various hominid species. He created species homo sapiens sapiens and he created Neanderthals too.

But I keep coming back to 2 basic questions:
1. Are Neanderthals species homo sapiens sapiens?
No
2. Are Neanderthals image bearers of God?
Again, the one and only species that Scripture ever refers to as 'image bearers of God' is species homo sapiens sapiens.

I think it is also significant that Neanderthals went extinct over 20,000 years before God established personal relationship with his image bearers and God's image bearers came to 'know good and evil'.
So from a Scriptural perspective, species homo sapiens sapiens is the only hominid species that Scripture refers to as 'image bearers of God' and they are the only species that God established personal relationship with.

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#5

Post by Philip » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:16 pm

DB, what approximate date are you giving for Adam?

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#6

Post by DBowling » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:14 pm

Philip wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:16 pm
DB, what approximate date are you giving for Adam?
Somewhere between 5000 and 6000 BC.

The Scriptural and archeological basis for this timeframe is:
1. The Septuagint version of the Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 genealogies.
2. In Genesis 4:17 Cain builds the city of Enoch (Uruk). Archeologists date the founding of the Mesopotamian city of Enoch/Uruk to around 5000 BC, which lines up with the time frame established by the Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 genealogies.

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#7

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:06 pm

DBowling wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:27 am
Philip wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm
These new findings, again, dredge up the question of what does it truly mean to be human - despite what Hugh Ross might think?

https://www.foxnews.com/science/neander ... -seashells
I'm pretty sure I've given my .02 on this topic elsewhere, but I think both the biological and scriptural criteria for 'humans' are pretty straightforward.

From a biological perspective, all humans on this planet are species homo sapiens sapiens, and all humans are descended from species homo sapiens sapiens who lived in Africa 150,000 - 200,000 years ago. There may (or may not) have been some interbreeding between humans and Neanderthals at some time in the past, but Neanderthals are not common ancestors of all humans on the planet.
Even though Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthals are both hominid species they are still different hominid species.

From a biblical perspective, all humans are image bearers of God.
Genesis 9:6 specifically identifies Noah and his family as 'image bearers of God'. By the time of Noah (and Adam for that matter), Neanderthals had been extinct for over 20,000 years. So species homo sapiens sapiens is the only hominid species that Scripture identifies as an image bearer of God. And Neanderthals were completely unknown to any authors of the Bible.

So even though there may be some behavioral similarities between Neanderthals and pre-Adamic humans (species homo sapiens sapiens), I do not consider Neanderthals to be 'human' from either a biological or Scriptural perspective.
I agree with much of what you think however I don't see how you can go back 150,000 - 200,000 years ago as far as when God created man and woman in Genesis 1 on day 6 from a biblical perspective just because of science. I agree that humans and neanderthals are different species. I still think when it comes to the hominids and the fossil record a pre-Adamite world makes the most sense,both from a biblical and scientific view point.All we have to do is place neanderthals in the pre-Adamite world with all of the other pre-Adamite hominids and then after that world perished God made this world and created man in his image in Genesis chapter 1 on day 6 and we can even go back 6-10,000 years ago and hold on to Ussher's chronology. And it gets the job done for us both biblically and from a scientific perspective. This is one reason I like the Gap Theory over YEC,Theistic Evolution and Day Age.Two different worlds makes the most sense and I believe the fossil recorcd proves there was a pre-Adamite world that was a different kind of world than this world that perished before God made this world and not Evolution. So that we take the fossil record and prove two different worlds,not evolution.We would totally destroy evolution in its tracks using its own evidence and be able to teach from a biblical perspective the true history of the earth that is not evolution or secular. Imagine a debate like this - The fossil record proves a Pre-Adamite world or Evolution?
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Neanderthals - Recent Finds and Surprising Activities

#8

Post by Philip » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:24 am

Abel: "I agree that humans and neanderthals are different species. I still think when it comes to the hominids and the fossil record a pre-Adamite world makes the most sense,both from a biblical and scientific view point.All we have to do is place neanderthals in the pre-Adamite world with all of the other pre-Adamite hominids and then after that world perished God made this world and created man in his image..."
Abe, are you saying that, in your proposed former, pre-Adamite world, there were NO humans, but only hominids?

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