The Mark of the Beast

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
EssentialSacrifice
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Re: The Mark of the Beast

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:31 am

Paul wrote:
Again, in regards to confession, nowhere do you read the words of jesus stating that we MUST confess our sins to anyone other than Him and Our Father.

ES replied ... again ...
If you believe the bible is the word of God then it should not matter if it is God Himself or the ones He has chosen and utilizes for salvation, who speak of confession...


1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Acts 19:18
Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.
James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
Proverbs 28:13
He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper,But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

Do these verses seem implied to you ? They explicitly use the word confession or repentance (external acknowledgement of sin + remorse = confession). Does that satisfy ? IDK i really don't. I don't know what you believe these verses say. They aren't the words of Christ but are from the chosen ones who should be inspired (or they wouldn't be in the book) by God. Do you trust these words as you say or not ?
Paul wrote:
in regards to public mass, Christ was very critical of it

ES, Christ can be critical of something as he was with the way public masses were going ( and still go to this day) and NOT be against them.
To be critical of something doesn't mean you disagree with it;s meaning BUT how it is being done.
Jesus being critical of mass in His time is echoed by many in our time.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/6-5.htm

There are a half dozen commentaries on this verse Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, Benson Commentary, Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary, Barnes' Notes on the Bible, Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary and Pulpit Commentary there are more if you like and not one of them sees Christ criticize the mass, only the way some people present themselves during the mass. You have skewed the basic intent and manipulated the words to reach your conclusion. Christ has a critical eye on the pseudo believer with all their pretense, but not issued a word against the assembly for public mass, as you want. You'll need to come up with another verse for proof Christ was critical of the mass and not the people involved.
Paul wrote:
I do not confess to anyone other than Him.

Either do I. We do pray/ask forgiveness to Christ every time we go to confession ... directly through the priest who has the same priestly relationship as a mediator of Christ. Exactly as the priestly class of Jews would be used for atonement to God for sins of the ancient Jew.
Paul supplied:
13 Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, [k]anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer [l]offered in faith will [m]restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, [n]they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective [o]prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

agreed, this is a good verse ... see how St.James separates illnesses for healing.

When it comes to one “suffering;” St. James says, “Let him pray.” “Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise.” But when it comes to sickness and personal sins, he tells his readers they must go to the “elders”—not just anyone—in order to receive this “anointing” and the forgiveness of sins. Hebrews 7:23. It explicitly says to go to the elders for anointing and forgiveness of sin. It explicitly calls out for a specific ( if he has committed sins) remedy for this specific illness (sin)... go to the elders, the priestly, best versed of the community for reparation and wellness with God through those elders.
"The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much." The effective prayer of many righteous within the collected community can do more. Come to my church and see.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

PaulSacramento
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Re: The Mark of the Beast

Postby PaulSacramento » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:32 am

Either do I. We do pray/ask forgiveness to Christ every time we go to confession ... directly through the priest who has the same priestly relationship as a mediator of Christ. Exactly as the priestly class of Jews would be used for atonement to God for sins of the ancient Jew.


There is NO mediator between Us and Christ and ONLy Christ is Our mediator with our Father.
That is where we are different my friend.
While I respect that you choose to place priests between you and Christ or as a mediator instead of Christ, I most certianly do not and never will.
Call no one else your father other than your Father in heaven.
Matthew 23:

23 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5 But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their [a]phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. 8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 Do not be called [b]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.


There is no mediator between Us and God, except Christ:
1 Timothy 2:
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


The OC has been fulfilled, there is no need for a priestly class to "be used for atonement".
Christ has fulfilled all and through the HS, we learn all:

1 John 2New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Christ Is Our Advocate
2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an [a]Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the [b]propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 [c]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [d]it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20 [e]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and [f]because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the [g]Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

The Promise Is Eternal Life
25 This is the promise which He Himself [h]made to us: eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, [i]you abide in Him.

28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not [j]shrink away from Him in shame [k]at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is [l]born of Him.

EssentialSacrifice
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Re: The Mark of the Beast

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:11 pm

Paul wrote:
While I respect that you choose to place priests between you and Christ or as a mediator instead of Christ, I most certianly do not and never will.

In that doctorate, weren't there any classes on the Catholic faith ? you choose to place priests between you and Christ or as a mediator instead of Christ, Seriously Paul ... y/:] :crying: :shakehead:

Catholics believe only God can forgive sin. The sacrament of Penance is the way which God has chosen to administer that forgiveness. Jesus exercised the power to forgive sins "that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Mt 8:6). And Jesus to the Apostles in Jn 20:21-23 reads: "... As the Father has sent Me, so
I send you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them:'Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." This power is specific to sin. Jesus Christ did not bestow the power and responsibility to forgive sins to the Apostles and their successors knowing that all one needed to do was to seek forgiveness through prayer. The Church does not deny that sins will be forgiven via prayer directly to God, given of course that there's true repentance coupled with firm resolution to avoid this sin in the future; however, the only way we can be sure of proper disposition of the forgiveness of sin with absolute certainty is via the means established by Christ - the sacrament of Penance. http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/confess


And as this power was bestowed upon the Apostles, it was to be inherited by their successors, continuing His presence throughout time (Mt 28:19-20). Yes, Paul, Jesus is the one Mediator, but that does not deny Him from choosing others to assist Him in his work. One Mediator redeemed us, Jesus Christ.

The Catholic Priest, in the sacrament of Penance, does not redeem us; he is but an agent of the one Mediator, and assigned and empowered by the one Mediator.

Confession is but one way of applying the mediation of Christ to men - Baptism is another, and If you believe your Baptism "took" then you have to believe the Holy Spirit is personally indwelling, ( God within you) to save you from your sins, just as it is for the priest's personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit to assist in Christ's forgiveness of sins. If you believe the HS can be Baptismally indwelling in you there isn't any reason to not believe that same God, in the person of Jesus Christ can work salvatory confessional Penance for his followers within the confines of His (agent) priest..
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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AmySeilnum
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Re: The Mark of the Beast

Postby AmySeilnum » Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:24 am

You really need to re-think what you think you know because you still do not know the difference between the "beast" the anti-christ and the "lamb with two horns" nor do you have understanding about the roles they play.You cannot have understanding until you realize they are two different people working together. We have an anti-christ and the lamb with two horns and they are not the same people.


If you have understanding, based on the Bible, you would be able to share the Bible verses, no?


1. Revelation never uses the term "anti-Christ" True or False?

2. Christ said many would come in His name and do great signs and wonders.
Matthew 24:24-26 True or False?

3. Paul said the anti-Christ would sit in the temple of God and do great seeming miracles.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 True or False?

4. The beast of Revelation 13:1-10 is not described as doing any miracles. True or False?

5. Clearly John says; Revelation 13:11
"I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb"
True or False?

6. Beast #2 is described as doing miracles; Revelation 13:11-18 True or False?

7 Revelation 19:20 clearly describes two people being thrown into the lake of fire;
the beast and false prophet. True or False?

If you want to claim that any of the above points are false, you would have to provide clear scripture to back up that claim, please note that I am just reiterating what the Bible clearly says.

If you see them all as true, well then realize that clearly it is the 2nd beast that does the miracles, which clearly matches up with the words of Christ and Paul, clearly beast #2 is the anti-Christ.

And yes, beast#1 and beast#2 work together, i described that in frightening detail in my "little book" post. One would be required to have the image in order to communicate with the second beast.

In Revelation 19:20 the second beast is called the 'false prophet'
This is because Christ was and is the True Prophet; Deuteronomy 18:18-19
But the book of Revelation never uses the term "anti-Christ"

Your seeming to want to use the term as if there are 3, beast, anti-Christ, false prophet.
But that is clearly not the case, there are only 2 spoken of in Revelation, the beast and false prophet. Putting all scripture together makes it clear that 'false-prophet' is the term Revelation uses to refer to the anti-Christ, the one who "has two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon"
Revelation 13:11-18


Clearly based on Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 17:8-12 beast #1 is a kingdom,
with 7 major kings; Revelation 17:10-11, and 10 minor kings; Revelation 17:12.
Clearly Revelation 17 is just giving more detail about the same beast from Revelation 13:1-10.
The fourth kingdom of the earth; Daniel 7:23; the empire of the 3 city states.
One of the kings of that kingdom will seem to be wounded then healed; Revelation 13:3.
Afterwards a false prophet does miracles in the presence of this wounded/healed king;
Revelation 13:12-18. That is what the Bible is clearly telling us.


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