Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
berean91
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Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby berean91 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:05 am

it sounded as if Jesus returned around the time of the 1st century or very imminently. how do we explain these following verses?

Matt. 10:23 - "Truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."
•Matt. 16:27,28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
•Matt. 24:34 - "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
•Matt. 26:64 - "You [the high priest] will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven."
◦Revelation 1:1 - "...things which must shortly take place"
◦Revelation 2:16 - "Repent, or else I will come to you quickly"
◦Revelation 3:11 - "Behold, I come quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:6 - "...things which must shortly take place."
◦Revelation 22:7 - "Behold, I am coming quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:12 - "Behold, I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 22:20 - "Surely I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 1:3 - "The time is near."
◦Revelation 22:10 - "The time is at hand."
◦Revelation 1:19 - "Write ... the things that are about to take place."
◦Revelation 3:10 - "... the hour of trial ... is about to come upon the whole world."
•1 Cor. 10:11 - "On [us] the ends of the ages have come."
•Phil. 4:5 - "The Lord is at hand."
•James 5:8-9 - "The coming of the Lord is at hand. ... Behold, the Judge is standing at the door."
•1 Pet. 4:7 - "The end of all things is at hand."
•1 Jn. 2:18 - "It is the last hour ... we know that it is the last hour."

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby Danieltwotwenty » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:10 pm

Revelation is a tricky book, I believe it speaks both about the end of this existence and also my own personal existence, which in the whole scheme of things this existence and my own are coming very quickly.

I am pretty sure Jesus was talking about the fall of Jerusalem, but I am not a biblical scholar like some here.

Dan
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Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

berean91
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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby berean91 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:50 pm

surely a biblical scholar here must know something... I have been itching to explain those verses yet with the understanding Jesus hasn't come yet.

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby SeekingSanctuary » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:20 pm

•Matt. 16:27,28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."


Some think John of Patmos and the Apostle John are the same person. So, literally he didn't taste death until he saw it, not until it happened. There was a TV Special on Sunday night talking about it. No idea what my opinion is though.

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby jlay » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:49 am

SeekingSanctuary wrote:
•Matt. 16:27,28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."


Some think John of Patmos and the Apostle John are the same person. So, literally he didn't taste death until he saw it, not until it happened. There was a TV Special on Sunday night talking about it. No idea what my opinion is though.

The context of Matt. 16 is the transfiguration.

As far as the other, it is common among prophetic language. A partial preterist (which I am not) would say that in fact much if not most of this has already taken place. Thee destruction of the temple, and in turn the destruction of covenant Israel in A.D. 70. From their persepctive, the church would have replaced Israel.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby PaulSacramento » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:42 am

berean91 wrote:it sounded as if Jesus returned around the time of the 1st century or very imminently. how do we explain these following verses?

Matt. 10:23 - "Truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."
•Matt. 16:27,28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
•Matt. 24:34 - "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
•Matt. 26:64 - "You [the high priest] will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven."
◦Revelation 1:1 - "...things which must shortly take place"
◦Revelation 2:16 - "Repent, or else I will come to you quickly"
◦Revelation 3:11 - "Behold, I come quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:6 - "...things which must shortly take place."
◦Revelation 22:7 - "Behold, I am coming quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:12 - "Behold, I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 22:20 - "Surely I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 1:3 - "The time is near."
◦Revelation 22:10 - "The time is at hand."
◦Revelation 1:19 - "Write ... the things that are about to take place."
◦Revelation 3:10 - "... the hour of trial ... is about to come upon the whole world."
•1 Cor. 10:11 - "On [us] the ends of the ages have come."
•Phil. 4:5 - "The Lord is at hand."
•James 5:8-9 - "The coming of the Lord is at hand. ... Behold, the Judge is standing at the door."
•1 Pet. 4:7 - "The end of all things is at hand."
•1 Jn. 2:18 - "It is the last hour ... we know that it is the last hour."


Who was Jesus speaking too and how would THEY have understood what He said and in what context was He speaking?

Revelation aside for now, lest deal with Matt.

Most of those verses are indicative of the fall of the Temple in 70 AD, which happened in the generation of those hearing Jesus speak at that time.
Many apocalyptic phrases like "the son of man coming" are metaphors for Jesus being redeemed as the Son of Man ( which He proclaimed to be) when His prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem came true.
They may also be viewed as referring to His transfiguration and/or when He left His apostles as per ACT chapter 1.

As for terms such as "the lord is at hand, the kingdom of God is here, the end is at hand, etc..." these are not statements of TIME as in chronological time events, but statements of eventuality.

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby UsagiTsukino » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:09 pm

however the third temple wasn't built. The temple has to be rebuilt

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby EssentialSacrifice » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 am

PaulS said :
As for terms such as "the lord is at hand, the kingdom of God is here, the end is at hand, etc..." these are not statements of TIME as in chronological time events, but statements of eventuality.

I agree with Paul's comment whole heartily ...

Look, this is the way it's been explained to me. I'm using quotation marks because although they are not my words, they are a better than reasonable facsimile of thought,

"The phrase should be understood thus: "This generation (Christ was surrounded by the Apostles and disciples, that is, believers in Him) will not pass away, this generation of His sons, of the sons of God—because whoever believes in Christ and welcomes Him is born in God and of God, and acquires the right to be a son of God, as was said by John in the beginning of his Gospel and in his first Epistle (Chaps. 4 & 5)—this generation will not pass away before the end of the world comes with all its foreshadowing and final signs."

Because if it is true that at the end of time there will be little faith, since few will have known how to persevere to the end by resisting the doctrines of the false prophets, of the antichrists or (if you prefer) the sons of Satan, it is also true that faith in Christ will not die, and there will be those who believe in Me on every continent.

Therefore "this generation," Christ's, that of the "sons of God", will not have passed away, died, or been destroyed, before I return."

Which of course make perfect sense to me as there would be no reason for a return if there were none left here on earth to save. This is saying any generation of man who still has believers is this generation Which is problematic in as much as it has transferred from a "timing" return to a return of numbers. How many Christians need to be left for the hour glass to finally empty and herald His return. Not such a good thing in regards to today's abysmal percentage of on-earth humans who do believe and are waiting as compared to those % of unbelievers in the world, who hate Christ and not only disregard His majesty but defame it every moment of every day all across the globe.. IMO, we are losing ground very fast to unbelief, wrong belief and corrupt belief that I don't think Jesus approves of.

Also, if the second coming had happened in the 1st century, He is to reign over us for the next thousand years after his triumphant return ... that would make Him the ruler over the people during the Dark Ages, and I'm certain they would have realized, then, as we do now, those times were not of an overwhelmingly Christ like millennium.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:46 am

UsagiTsukino wrote:however the third temple wasn't built. The temple has to be rebuilt

Since we are talking about the 2nd temple, I am not sure what your point is.

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Re: Sounded like Jesus returned around the 1st century?

Postby abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:01 pm

berean91 wrote:it sounded as if Jesus returned around the time of the 1st century or very imminently. how do we explain these following verses?

Matt. 10:23 - "Truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."

This is saying in another way Israel will be trodden down of the gentiles until Christ returns,then it won't happen because Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem in Israel.
•Matt. 16:27,28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Transfiguration which you find not long after this.Also Jesus was pointing to the ground as he said this,there will be people in Israel when he returns in the clouds to rapture people who have not died.
•Matt. 24:34 - "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
This is talking about the generation that sees the signs of the times or birth pains,the generation that sees them will not pass away until all these things take place,we are to be watching and looking for them to know we are close.
•Matt. 26:64 - "You [the high priest] will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven."
As it reads,true.
◦Revelation 1:1 - "...things which must shortly take place"
◦Revelation 2:16 - "Repent, or else I will come to you quickly"
◦Revelation 3:11 - "Behold, I come quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:6 - "...things which must shortly take place."
◦Revelation 22:7 - "Behold, I am coming quickly!"
◦Revelation 22:12 - "Behold, I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 22:20 - "Surely I am coming quickly."
◦Revelation 1:3 - "The time is near."
◦Revelation 22:10 - "The time is at hand."
◦Revelation 1:19 - "Write ... the things that are about to take place."
◦Revelation 3:10 - "... the hour of trial ... is about to come upon the whole world."
•1 Cor. 10:11 - "On [us] the ends of the ages have come."
•Phil. 4:5 - "The Lord is at hand."
•James 5:8-9 - "The coming of the Lord is at hand. ... Behold, the Judge is standing at the door."
•1 Pet. 4:7 - "The end of all things is at hand."
•1 Jn. 2:18 - "It is the last hour ... we know that it is the last hour."
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.


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