Left Behind...the Rapture.

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
Mystical
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Left Behind...the Rapture.

#1

Post by Mystical » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:03 pm

Has anyone read the Left Behind series? Is it an accurate portrayal of the End?

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#2

Post by Fortigurn » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:57 am

No I haven't, but no it isn't (I do know what it says).

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puritan lad
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#3

Post by puritan lad » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:57 am

I'm familiar with the series. It is quite creative in it's interpretations, but is really nothing more than a rehash of Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" theology (where he was dead wrong on just about every single prediction). Here is a list of things in the Left Behind series that you will not find in the Bible.

A pre-trib rapture.
A 7-year tribulation period.
A Russian Invasion of Israel.
A future world dictator.
A cashless society.
A third Jewish temple.

There are many more, but this should suffice.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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#4

Post by Mystical » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:17 pm

Will there be a rapture at all?

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RE:

#5

Post by Ark~Magic » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:01 pm

Puritan lad has a preterist view so that means the only things left to happen is the second coming, rapture, and then the final judgement, at least if he's a partial preterist.
"And I shall slay them who partake of futurism, for in the preterist light there will be everlasting salvation, truth, and peace." ~ Faust

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#6

Post by puritan lad » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:26 am

Mystical wrote:Will there be a rapture at all?
I am a partial preterist. In answer to you question, there will be no "rapture", at least as currently defined - a secret catching away of saints so that God can pour out a 7 year (or 3 1/2 depending on who you ask) tribulation period on those who are "Left Behind".

The main scripture used by rapturists is 1 Thess. 4:17. However, when examined closely, this "rapture" clearly takes place after the resurrection (1 Thess. 4:16) - "the dead in Christ will rise first", and is anything but secret "shout, trumpets" etc. We don't know when it will happen, but we do know that the resurrection takes place on "the last day" (Daniel 12:13, John 6:39-40), and that the Great Commission will be completed successfully (Psalm 22:27-28).

In short, we are not living in the last days, and no one will be "Left Behind".
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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RE:

#7

Post by Ark~Magic » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:27 am

Preterism is the shining wisdom and truth. It removes many inconsistencies in futurist views and defeats the endless stack of lies presented in today's teen pop literature and empirical christian propaganda, such as Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey's abusive material. It punches so-called "end-times experts" in the balls, who know practically nothing about it whatsoever. That being said, it is best to avoid misleading "tribulation" material. Many of these modern 'experts' are misleading as well. I cannot stand to watch any Christian TV programs (n SkyAngel) without some overdressed hick preacher boasting about apocalyptic nonsense. They know it sells and that they can get gullible people to buy into their false doctrine, either through faith or through fear.

Time will however eventually erode the false doctrine of futurism, if Christ does not return by then. But this money-sucking brothel of propaganda needs to be exposed.
"And I shall slay them who partake of futurism, for in the preterist light there will be everlasting salvation, truth, and peace." ~ Faust

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#8

Post by Mystical » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:48 am

Cool. No pre-trib rapture.

But, no real support for the idea that "we are not living in the last days." No one knows that. I think we are.

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#9

Post by ryo dokomi » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:54 am

well, we are living in the last days. it was the last days as soon as Christ assended into Heaven.

and i believe in the Pre-tribulation, and from what i've read, there is a third temple to be built puritan lad
Therefore, submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

it is all about submitting before God, then, and only then, will we have the promise given in Luke 10:19

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#10

Post by puritan lad » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:28 pm

ryo dokomi wrote:well, we are living in the last days. it was the last days as soon as Christ assended into Heaven.

and i believe in the Pre-tribulation, and from what i've read, there is a third temple to be built puritan lad
What have you read? The Bible or Hal Lindsey? Can you support your position with Scripture? Can you show me a "pre-trib" rapture in Scripture? How about a third temple? How about a future tribulation period?
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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#11

Post by Mystical » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:26 pm

What is futurism? What is preterism?

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#12

Post by puritan lad » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:39 am

Futurism is the belief that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) and the Book of Revelation concern future events. (Future Tribulations period, Future Beast, Future Temple, etc.) Preterism teaches that these things took place in the First Century (70 AD), just like the Bible says they would (Matthew 24:34, Revelation 1:1-3). The only events left are the completion of the Great Commission (Psalm 22:27-28), the resurrection (John 6:39-44), and the Final Judgment.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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#13

Post by j316 » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:49 am

puritan lad wrote:Futurism is the belief that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) and the Book of Revelation concern future events. (Future Tribulations period, Future Beast, Future Temple, etc.) Preterism teaches that these things took place in the First Century (70 AD), just like the Bible says they would (Matthew 24:34, Revelation 1:1-3). The only events left are the completion of the Great Commission (Psalm 22:27-28), the resurrection (John 6:39-44), and the Final Judgment.
I also am a partial preterist. I would like to know where you think we currently are in the sequence of events given in Revelation.
The way I read Revelation it is prophecy of a series of events that start just prior to 66AD and continue for an unspecified length of time, it is extremely difficult to say just how long because using OT prophecies is tricky. Most OT prophecies can be shown to have at least some fulfillment in the years prior to Jesus, including most of Daniels prophecies. The only one I can see that may cross over is the one about the time,times and half of a time, but where does it fit in and how long is that period?
There is a reference also to the "times of the gentiles" but that could refer to the period of 586BC to the fall of Jerusalem. The whole problem is a way to identify a starting point.

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#14

Post by puritan lad » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:06 am

j316,

There is debate among preterists as to where we are on the eschatological timeline, and whether or not there will be a literal "millennial riegn".

As you can tell by my screen name, I am a puritan (postmillennial). I believe that the gospel will permeate the planet, that both Jew and Gentile will be converted before the Second Advent, and that "the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea" (Habakkuk 2:14).

For a great, indepth view of postmillennialism that answers many of these issues, I would recommend The Puritan Hope by Iain Murray.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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#15

Post by Mystical » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:16 pm

I think I am a furturist. I don't think those events happened yet, but that we misunderstand what Jesus meant by "this generation."

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