kateliz wrote:Actually, apart from reading a book directly comparing Church approved statements with Bible verses I probably did only spend thirty minutes or so on the Catechism. Maybe more, but since I'm not sure I won't claim it! However, that doesn't change what I did read in that time, and that it's unbiblical and supports salvation by kinds of works along with other serious fallacies. Besides, I don't need to understand Catholics themselves if what I'm disagreeing with here is the RCC's official stance. Like I tried to point out, a lot Catholics don't agree with a lot of what the RCC teaches as Catholic doctrine, (again info gotten from various places that I can't back up with facts.)Noel wrote:30 minutes with the Catechism does not an understanding of Catholics make.
I was quite tempted to purchase that Vatican II book, but figured I'd first read the shorter books. Someday maybe I will read it.Don't mean to be picky, but are you referencing the Church here or God? If we so choose to belong to a denomination we should in no way hold to it as if it were another Bible, (but with maybe less credit given it.) We should never feel like our denomination of choice is something to rest on but should always keep both of our hands in God's own. It should never be that one hand is in God's and the other in a denomination's.Noel wrote:my faith is firmly in place...in the right place.
Make sure to constantly be on gaurd and ready to buck any unbiblical statements, (here I'm talking to everyone,) even if it came from the Pope, a council, or your own pastor. You've stated before that there are some things you disagree with that the Church teaches, so I'm not sure of your loyalty to it, but I'm guessing you, (as most Catholics- which is again an informed guess,) don't feel too much of a need to fully research your denomination's exact teachings; you trust them to a certain degree anyway. Be careful with that, even if it still doesn't affect your own relationship with God.But doctrine should be based on the Word, and I find that the Catechism teaches doctrines that are in direct contrast with it. The book is trusted as if it's infallible, (at least by whatever percentage of Catholics, which I think would probably be a good number,) as well as what the Catholic churchs teach and as well as what the Pope says. (The Catechism itself says you are to do this, and yes puts them right up by the Bible, just a hair lower because they have to.) Yet, as you've stated, many Catholics don't bother to read these statements that they assume must be in complete agreement with the Bible. Worse than playing Russian roulette! More like voting in a government official just because they look good on TV. "Hey, as long as I don't have to stare at another ugly mug I don't care what they believe!" Not a precise analogy, but you hopefully get the point. Kind of like Christians who sit under their pastor as if everything he says is gold while they don't bother to read the Bible for themselves. Trusting a complete stranger to hold your purse while you run to the bathroom!Noel wrote:Catechism is doctrine, not the word of God.That's the RCC view on salvation anyway! In that one book I read they did a diagram of the process... oh boy! If you're interested in looking at it, (for free at a Christian bookstore- no need to buy for this purpose,) it's The Gospel According to Rome. Actually, I ordered it by mail. It might not be on the store shelves. Can't tell you the author now either.Noel wrote:It is a process, not a promise."Need" was a poor choice. Like stated above, if you put yourself under a government official without doing background checks you may just be in danger! And I meant that if they read it. But I guess you'd also have to have read the Bible to get the startle you really should, and not enough Christians/nominal Christians do.You'll find few Catholics startled by it since most never need or use it.A throwback that was 100% agreed to by Pope John Paul in... what was it, '95? Ten years if but a nano-second in terms of Catholic doctrine changes! And I do believe that we should all be pretty heavily "doctine driven." If we aren't then our (non)beliefs about who God is and how He works can have disatorous effects! Besides, isn't the Bible "heavily doctrine driven"? I would like to think so!Noel wrote:It is a throwback to a heavily doctrine driven period.Yes you have but you need not worry. I merely did that, (though I guess now I probably shouldn't have,) to differentiate between Catholics and Christians of other denominations. I can't exactly say "Protestants" because that would imply they would all have serious issues with the Catholic church, which wouldn't have been fair to anyone.Noel wrote:Having said that, I note the constant use of the terms "Christians...or Catholics"
Noel, I admire your firm stance on the Body of Christ being one, but unbiblical doctrines must be separated from lies in an outward show. Yes, (this sounds like that other thread going on,) denominations are sins as they divide the Body in certain ways, but... now what was I going to say? Oh well, maybe you can guess. Oh yeah! But these differences must be made clear to all for the sake of God's glory and others' spiritual health. We cannot ignore doctrines.
We must all come together to see what the Bible says without bias and a mind and heart willing to hear exactly what God has to say even if it hurts. This is our problem: we don't want to do that. We also want the freedom to ignore the facts that conclusively prove the Bible is God's infalliable Word, protected by Him in a most divine way throughout all it's years. We cannot come together to study Biblical truth if we believe it was written by men with issues.
And just one more question: if you're so against division of the Body, why belong to a denomination yourself? (I don't for this exact reason.) Or, at it sort of seems, (correct me if I'm wrong,) do you feel that the Catholic church is in fact the true church? And if that's the case, because RCC doctrine does in fact officially teach that anyone not a member of it is not a Christian, how do you reconcile that with believing nonmembers of the RCC are part of the Body you belong to?
And wouldn't you then have the same attitude Christians who choose to be members of the... what 1,000... other denominations would? You chide them for dividing the Body, but you yourself have the same mind as them in that you believe your denomination is the real one. A little hypocrisy there, maybe? (Don't be too offended by that, Sis. Jus' because you're a hypocrite doesn't mean you'll be thrown where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, now does it? And of course I'm never a hypocrite! )
Can you list any unbiblical doctrines? I'm reading the catechism right now and so far it's very spiritual and built upon the words of Christ.