Evidence for God from Science

ruth wrote:Hello Canuckster,
Sorry if I went too far afield with my reply.
If you would be more specific about which things I said, you would like more clarification on, I would be glad to do that.
Shalom,
Ruth

Ruth

I presume you are referring to the word, ecclesia, in reference to your comments regarding "church." I suspect you are as aware as I am that the model for what arose institutionally as the Church, was the Hebrew synagogue. Further, the basis for Sunday becoming a significant day.

Usually there are 2 meanings than can be inferred from the word Church, either the universal body made up of those who have called upon Christ and are saved, and then the specific local body.

Are you arguing that only those "local bodies" that hold to the sabbath as taught in the old testament from Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset are legitimate?

If so, what is your point in tying this to the word "church?"

That is what I was driving at.

Bart

I voted undecided .

I can't really tell someone else to go to church when at this time I don't.
Almost, every sunday I feel a little guilty for not going.
My busy life and distance to travel are one excuse.
I know I won't find a church that believes in everything the way I do.
I think many churches teaching have been corrupted.

I want a bible believing, caring church that not too strict. One that gives a little freedom in ones beliefs. Yet one that doesn't bend to far like okaying same-sex marriage. Oh yeah, and if the sermons don't run too long as myattention span is short.

The fellowship could be a bonus,but it can't be connected to the amount of money donated.

Mike the Bluesman

Deborah wrote:the church is a group of believers who get together in praise and worship God.

The church is not the building, it is the congregation, it can meet in a park, at the beach, in someones living room.

btw please pray for me, I seem to have strayed off the path and am having trouble getting back.

I will pray for you deborah. I know what it is like to stray and have trouble getting back. Find a strong Christian to meet with regularly to pray and encourage each other.

Christians don't go to church, christians are the church.

Nothing seems to turn off non-Christians more than the big buildings Christians meet in, and then keep asking for money.

Church buildings have become not much more than Sunday entertainment centers for religious people. They are a far cry from the many local house meetings intended by God. Christians in China don't meet in big buildings and are strong despite the persecution. My guess is if persecution were to begin in the States, the entertainment buildings called churches would empty over night.

I believe that Christians should go to Church due to it is in the Bible.

I do not believe the Church should be a HUGE organization that hordes money and decorates itself in Gold and Marble and other frivolous material items.

If you attend church in a drippy cave then so be it, it is the fellowship that matters not how expensive the building is.

Think of all that money that could be used to help the less fortunate, and sick and homeless.

I personally haven't been in a Church in AGES, I need to go. I owe it to the Lord.

Pray for me to help make this happen.


Also, sorry to revive such an old thread.

There are unlimited numbers of 'churches' or 'cirlces'.

A "Christ" or "Jesus" circle has only one definite criterion:

Love of others more than love of self.

The 'cross' is such kind of love as preserved by the memory of
Jesus.

Who overcame death.

So, on that tradition, or memory of that accomplishment, giving
unto the utmost, is Christlike and the doer is very Christ.

Period.

People of service or people placing their lives at risk
for the service, protection and defence of others are living the
Christ-life.

This includes parents, soldiers, firemen and women, police-men and women,
anyone at all who delight more in the goodness of lives beyond themselves.

Everyone knows that to be alone and isolated is not life.

Why?

We have, all of us, organs of being. And the heart is the organ of
love. And with any experience at all, we know that the experience of
warmth in that doesn't exist in any comparable way with ourselves
alone. No one comes into this world by some self-creation.

Parents precede us. If we don't know love from such, we are adopted
somewhere.

If we are adopted into a culture of usury, we come into a culture of
a relatively cold and ugly reality.

So, it behooves any of us who know love to love such and so graft them
into a culture of true warmth and kindness.

And if we turn away, and repugn such, we are most unkind. And actually
promote crime.

We are most wisely advised: be kind to the widow and the orphan.

Don't reap your fields all the way to the corners. Leave some crop for
the un-franchised or so-called 'unelect'.

Feed people. Clothe people. Be nice to people.

What is so hard about this?

Rogerscottq wrote:
Feed people. Clothe people. Be nice to people.

What is so hard about this?

Well Rogerscottq you have feeded, clothed, and been nice to us with the previous text of yours.

Was not so hard, whas it?

Victor

My thoughts about church is a little different.

Who ever your god may be, I don't understand why 'the people' believe they need to give up their own fortune for the church. God, Jesus or whoever you believe in, did not have extravagant churches or buildings and they were not own the billions of dollars that they worth today. Churches and worship monuments were made by the rich and those seeking power and eternity. The exact people the bible tells you not to worship.

I can go on for ages, but I won't....

It's interesting to take a look at this old thread. So many of my thoughts on this have changed quite a bit in the last 4 years. I've provided some of them in other threads.

It's also interesting to see what started the conversation from Wayne Jacobsen. He's a graduate from the same Biblical Lit Program I went to at ORU, a former editor of Leadership Magazine and he's also one of the primary editors of The Shack.

LOL. Interesting this should get brought up given my conversation in another thread with jlay.

Eph. 3:20-21, 4:7-13
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men."9What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

jlay wrote:Eph. 3:20-21, 4:7-13
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men."9What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Are you attempting to defame me?

If I read between the lines, I wasn't aware that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers were all limited to the confines of an organised church denomination meeting at a particular location. I see many outside of such structures who I believe make up the "body of Christ" and are a part of the true church. Christ knows who are His.

What? You are dangerous when you read between the lines.

I didn't even comment,these are Paul's words about THE CHURCH. This blessings are NOT limited to the traditional congregational church. The church is not a building, or what sign is posted in front of the building, a paid staff, etc. etc.

You'll get no argument from me there, and I'm quite confused as to why you would consider it so. The church is the body of Christ, which comprises all those who have believed that Jesus is the Christ. John 1:12

jlay wrote:What? You are dangerous when you read between the lines.

I didn't even comment,these are Paul's words about THE CHURCH. This blessings are NOT limited to the traditional congregational church. The church is not a building, or what sign is posted in front of the building, a paid staff, etc. etc.

You'll get no argument from me there, and I'm quite confused as to why you would consider it so. The church is the body of Christ, which comprises all those who have believed that Jesus is the Christ. John 1:12

I need to sleep. It's late here.

Now, after I've read the survey, I don't understand the discussion's title. The title seems to ask us to define the Church, the phrase "the Church," or both. The survey asks whether Christians should attend church services, but those two topics are very different from each other.

I believe the church is a group of believers that support and help each other, to teach and correct and grow in wisdom and knowledge.
Without that support group I think it would be very hard for someone especially when faced with a faith crisis to stay strong and convicted.
The church is not a building or a certain place of "holy ground", the church is Christ and his people.


Dan