Condoms, sex education and such

Discussion for Christian perspectives on ethical issues such as abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and so forth.
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Audacity
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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Audacity » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:28 pm

Kurieuo wrote:If IQ matters here, and 50% of parents go through life with less then below average IQ why then shouldn't the government help these parents all the more?

It should.

And equally, if 50% parents couldn't understand because they have a less than average IQ, then there's also going to be difficulties teaching those 50% of students with a less than average IQ.

Yup.

You do know more and more parents are home schooling due to the Government nanny mentality.

I know there are various reasons for home schooling.

There are some issues that should be kept to parents. Even parents have final say over education. If you don't like an education, there's nothing stopping parents from moving elsewhere, or doing it themselves.

If it's still within the USA then their obligation remains the same.

Your "society has deemed" comments, even if true (despite the government and education systems often dictating to the people) are simply fallacious: argumentum ad populum.

I suggest you look up argumentum ad populum and get a good explanation of it, because it simply doesn't apply here.

In fact, when many of these sexual education programs that teach masturbation, normalise homosexuality and abortion and even encourage sex as healthy and nothing wrong with multiple partners so long as one takes "precautions" -- some sex education progams is teaching very Humanistic values which may as well be a religion of its own.

That's a whole lot of unsupported claims. Got any evidence to back them up?

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Nicki » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:48 pm

Audacity wrote:In any case, I'm still curious as to what sex ed subjects parents object to.


I think he answered that already - I'll add the quote below:-

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Nicki » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:50 pm

Kurieuo wrote:And you know, I'd see red if I found out my school tried teaching my kid masturbation, normalising homosexuality (no surprise we disagree there), promotion of abortion services which take little human lives in the most barbaric ways (again no surprise if you look at my signature). Seriously the principal and teachers would have a visit, and it wouldn't be for a peaceful talk if I caught wind.

No matter the social acceptance that may develop, many ideas that do get taught sexualise children and by that I mean a type of grooming for sex, and I don't take that lightly. Not with my kids. And often endorsed is teaching them about behaviour I believe to be psychologically harmful and/or abhorrently wrong; but it's normalised. I'm to protect my kids and family, including from social evils. If you have kids, you'll realise how personal and affronting it is, I mean picture a forced "young earth creation" education on your kids to get a sense for sensitivities.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:09 pm

Audacity wrote:
Your "society has deemed" comments, even if true (despite the government and education systems often dictating to the people) are simply fallacious: argumentum ad populum.

I suggest you look up argumentum ad populum and get a good explanation of it, because it simply doesn't apply here.

If society has deemed that it is morally alright to have black slaves, it doesn't mean it is morally alright.
Argumentum ad populum is making an argument based upon popular opinion.

Audacity wrote:
In fact, when many of these sexual education programs that teach masturbation, normalise homosexuality and abortion and even encourage sex as healthy and nothing wrong with multiple partners so long as one takes "precautions" -- some sex education progams is teaching very Humanistic values which may as well be a religion of its own.

That's a whole lot of unsupported claims. Got any evidence to back them up?

I'm not sure if you misread, but I said: "These sexual education programs that teach masturbation, normalise homosexuality and abortion..."

Many programs which adopt UNESCO recommendations, for example, various European countries. More recently in the US a school tried adopting an education program aimed at kindergarten kids. I'm sure you can Google it. And in Netherlands and through Europe, many sex/sexual education programs touch upon such.

I wouldn't expect that someone flops their privates out and masturbates, but nonetheless it is taught around the world. And as European "International" curriculum becomes more and more popular, such education will gain wider influence.

Really, you seem to lurk backwards at an extreme sex education, or what I perceive as such. Why, I suppose we should discuss particulars, what is taught, which classes it is taught within and so on. I have no issues teaching about reproduction, how babies form and straight biology. For older children, I have no issues with teaching about different perspectives in a fair manners based upon different values and beliefs, bioethical/moral issues and the like.

Neutrality is key, but you know what I see in Europe and suggested by UNESCO who has a wide influence via the International Baccalaureate and many governments around the world, then I don't see neutrality at all. Only a very Humanistic agenda for prothletising as originally mapped out by Julian Huxley in UNESCO's charter.*

*I'll write more on Huxley below, because his influence is being felt to this day.
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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Kurieuo » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:17 pm

Julian Huxley (1887-1975), the first Director General of UNESCO, was a vocal Atheist who wrote against belief in God. To quote from his Religion without Revelation:

    The supernatural is being swept out of the universe in the flood of new knowledge of what is natural. It will soon be as impossible for an intelligent, educated man or woman to believe in a god as it is now to believe the earth is flat, that flies can be spontaneously generated... or that death is always due to witchcraft... The god hypothesis is no longer of any pragmatic value for the interpretation or comprehension of nature, and indeed often stands in the way of better and truer interpretation. Operationally, God is beginning to resemble not a ruler but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire cat. (Religion without Revelation, 1957)

It is important to understand that Julian Huxley defined UNESCO's purpose and philosophy. Huxley wrote a paper with the title, UNESCO: Its Purpose And Its Philosophy, downloadable from UNESCO's website.

He clearly defines that UNESCO "must serve the ends and objects of the United Nations, which in the long perspective are world ends, ends for humanity as a whole." (p.5) This paper really is a must read.

He states that human peace and security can only be achieved through humanism. In particular saying that UNESCO "cannot base its outlook on one of the competing theologies of the world as against the others, whether Islam, Roman Catholoicism, Protestant Christianity, Buddhists, Unitarianism, Judaism, or Hinduism." (p.7)

Huxley (UNESCO) believe such is only possible via "a world humanism, both in the sense of seeking to bring in all the peoples of the world...". He goes onto define the true humanism that everyone should adopt as being a scientific world humanism, global in extent and evolutionary in background.

I'm just here going to quote from Huxley's paper – you decide how you feel about it:

    One other item which Unesco should put on its programme as soon as possible is the study of the application of psycho-analysis and other schools of "deep" psychology to education. Though some repression into the unconscious seems to be indispensable if the human infant is to develop a normal moral sense and a full personality, yet it is equally obvious that over-strong or one-side repression is capable of producing various distortions of character and frustrations to full development, and notably a hypertrophied sense of sin which can be disastrous to the individual or to others. If we could discover some means of regulating the process of repression and its effects, we should without doubt be able to make the world both happier and more efficient. This would mean an extension of education backwards from the nursery school to the nursery itself. (UNESCO: Its Purpose And Its Philosophy, p.33)

Now UNESCO backs the IB programmes. They don't hide this. It is after all one of their projects which got wind under its wings and is found throughout many schools around the world. What other education programmes are they backing with the same weight? I am sure they do support others, but none that have had as much success as IBO's.

Guess what starting years that the IB PYP programme is aimed at? The IB Primary Years Programme (PYP) is a curriculum framework designed for students aged 3 to 12.

IBO aims its programme at "students" aged as young as 3 years old. The school I moved my daughter from, who just became IB accredited, kicked out a C&K kindergarten breaking their agreed lease, and now has a nursery of its own targeting these ages. And I'm equally sure it'll become PYP accredited also, if it didn't inherit such from already being accredited with higher years.

This says nothing to the sexual education programmes, but you know, I think the draft paper I presented provides insight into the thought and philosophy driving this "International" curriculum schools all over the world are taking up in droves. UNESCO and IBO have such a wide influence over schools and education all over the world, in the US, Australia and many other countries.
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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Audacity » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:52 pm

Nicki wrote:I think he answered that already - I'll add the quote below:-



Kurieuo wrote:And you know, I'd see red if I found out my school tried teaching my kid masturbation, normalising homosexuality (no surprise we disagree there), promotion of abortion services which take little human lives in the most barbaric ways (again no surprise if you look at my signature). Seriously the principal and teachers would have a visit, and it wouldn't be for a peaceful talk if I caught wind.


And as I said, "That's a whole lot of unsupported claims. Got any evidence to back them up?" "Them" being

1) Teaching masturbation (don't believe it. Where's the evidence?)

2) Normalising homosexuality (Not sure what he means by "normalizing," but it's been shown beyond doubt that homosexuality is normal. As normal as being left-handed.)

3) Promoting abortion (don't believe it. Where's the evidence?)

No matter the social acceptance that may develop, many ideas that do get taught sexualise children and by that I mean a type of grooming for sex, and I don't take that lightly.
So sex education grooms kids for sex. Excuse me for facepalming.

And often endorsed is teaching them about behaviour I believe to be psychologically harmful and/or abhorrently wrong; but it's normalised. I'm to protect my kids and family, including from social evils. If you have kids, you'll realise how personal and affronting it is, I mean picture a forced "young earth creation" education on your kids to get a sense for sensitivities.
Sorry, but you've been fed a lot of fundie paranoia. It's a shame you've bought into it.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Audacity » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:13 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Audacity wrote:
Your "society has deemed" comments, even if true (despite the government and education systems often dictating to the people) are simply fallacious: argumentum ad populum.

I suggest you look up argumentum ad populum and get a good explanation of it, because it simply doesn't apply here.

If society has deemed that it is morally alright to have black slaves, it doesn't mean it is morally alright.
Argumentum ad populum is making an argument based upon popular opinion.

What society deems is not an opinion. It would be like saying 5,000,000 people voted for Donald Duck is an Argumentum ad populum. Simple statements of fact don't qualify as an Argumentum ad populum. Moreover, Argumentum ad populum need not be based on opinion. It can be based on belief, position, or act.

Audacity wrote:
In fact, when many of these sexual education programs that teach masturbation, normalise homosexuality and abortion and even encourage sex as healthy and nothing wrong with multiple partners so long as one takes "precautions" -- some sex education progams is teaching very Humanistic values which may as well be a religion of its own.

That's a whole lot of unsupported claims. Got any evidence to back them up?

I'm not sure if you misread, but I said: "These sexual education programs that teach masturbation, normalise homosexuality and abortion..."
Yup. That's what I read.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Kurieuo » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:40 am

Audacity wrote:Sorry, but you've been fed a lot of fundie paranoia. It's a shame you've bought into it.

The irony isn't lost on me. :shakehead:
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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby ICOYAR » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:25 pm

1) No

And

2) No

Sexualization of minors, and promotion of extreme sexual promocuity, and sex outside of marriage at an alarming rate contributes to the downfall of society.

Nothing but Cultural Marxism trying to remove all human decency, and removal of God's word regarding sexual relations.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Audacity » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:05 pm

ICOYAR wrote:1) No

And

2) No

Sexualization of minors, and promotion of extreme sexual promocuity, and sex outside of marriage at an alarming rate contributes to the downfall of society.

Okay, what is your evidence that providing condoms significantly sexualizes minors, promotes extreme promiscuity, and that sex outside of marriage contributes to the downfall of society? My suspicion is that you could provide links to such claims---I'm sure they're all over fundie web sites---but provide no empirical evidence that they're true.

Nothing but Cultural Marxism trying to remove all human decency, and removal of God's word regarding sexual relations.

So providing condoms to public school children amounts to Cultural Marxism. Okay I think I'm done here. You and your paranoia have a good day.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Nessa » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:30 pm

Audacity wrote: Okay I think I'm done here. You and your paranoia have a good day.

No, I don't think you are done here.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Mallz » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:40 pm

2) Normalising homosexuality (Not sure what he means by "normalizing," but it's been shown beyond doubt that homosexuality is normal. As normal as being left-handed.)
:pound:

I can't stay out anymore. Back this up Audacity (where is the evidence?). Try and do your best, because I know you can't succeed. And if your going to do some 'last minute' research for posting, please be holistic and go beyond your own lens.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby ICOYAR » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:54 pm

Audacity wrote:
ICOYAR wrote:1) No

And

2) No

Sexualization of minors, and promotion of extreme sexual promocuity, and sex outside of marriage at an alarming rate contributes to the downfall of society.

Okay, what is your evidence that providing condoms significantly sexualizes minors, promotes extreme promiscuity, and that sex outside of marriage contributes to the downfall of society? My suspicion is that you could provide links to such claims---I'm sure they're all over fundie web sites---but provide no empirical evidence that they're true.

Nothing but Cultural Marxism trying to remove all human decency, and removal of God's word regarding sexual relations.

So providing condoms to public school children amounts to Cultural Marxism. Okay I think I'm done here. You and your paranoia have a good day.


Because, what you are trying to claim that active promotion of sex ISN'T caused by passing out condoms and birth control pills? That Leftists blatantly AREN'T trying to sexualize the population through explicit movies, music, TV shows, and websites?

Suppose you teach a teenager all about sex, and give him a condom. What do you expect he will do?

And also, Cultural Marxism is real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M

Don't deny it.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby Audacity » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:48 pm

ICOYAR wrote:Because, what you are trying to claim that active promotion of sex ISN'T caused by passing out condoms and birth control pills? That Leftists blatantly AREN'T trying to sexualize the population through explicit movies, music, TV shows, and websites?

Suppose you teach a teenager all about sex, and give him a condom. What do you expect he will do?

And also, Cultural Marxism is real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M

Don't deny it.


Sorry, but there are no end-runs around here. Before answering any of your questions you have to answer mine. Fair's fair, and all that.

"what is your evidence that providing condoms significantly sexualizes minors, promotes extreme promiscuity, and that sex outside of marriage contributes to the downfall of society?"


.

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Re: Condoms, sex education and such

Postby edwardmurphy » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:48 pm

Allowed, yes, required, no.

Providing birth control isn't advocating sex among the student population, it's acknowledging that it's going to happen one way or the other and being proactive about damage control. Abstinence-only sex education is stupid. It doesn't work. I'm all for having the curriculum loudly and repeatedly stress that sex is risky, promiscuity is riskier still, and the best thing for everyone is to wait, but at the same time you have to be realistic. Kids are going to have sex, and uninformed kids are going to have more problems than educated ones.

I was talking to my dad about this very thing a couple of days ago. Interestingly, he said that back when he was in middle school - in the mid 1950s - his school had a robust sex education program. Apparently that was before ideology trumped common sense.
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