Support Gay Marriage Cakes

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Kurieuo
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Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Kurieuo » Sun May 24, 2015 6:16 pm

So, I'm sure many heard in Ireland how a business was successfully taken to court over refusing to not create a cake with "Support Gay Marriage" or something such.

Really, what are the issues involved? Who is being discriminated against?
And most important of all, what about the elephants?
Erm. Ok. Nevermind that last one.

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Storyteller » Wed May 27, 2015 4:29 am

Oh, I see.....

The elephants don`t matter. y:O2

Seriously though, is it really right to refuse to serve someone, or not provide a service based on what you believe?

Personally I would keep my beliefs out of my business.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby 1over137 » Thu May 28, 2015 12:32 pm

Storyteller wrote:Oh, I see.....

The elephants don`t matter. y:O2

Seriously though, is it really right to refuse to serve someone, or not provide a service based on what you believe?

Personally I would keep my beliefs out of my business.

Would you make a cake: God does not exist or cake Christ was fool?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Storyteller » Thu May 28, 2015 2:12 pm

Yes.

If it was my business to make cakes.

I sell books, I have a copy of the Koran in my shop, along with Mein Kamp.

Its up to my customers to choose what to buy.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Kurieuo » Thu May 28, 2015 2:57 pm

The fact "you" are doing it makes it personal.
And businesses are run by people, and people have moral consciences, beliefs and the like.

So what about a cake that said, "Death to all Gays" and a noose around someone's head.
Or how about a picture of Lee Rigby about to be beheaded with the words "Support ISIS"?

I think if you're honest A, that you'd tell such people to go get buggered.
Maybe even call the police to inform.

There is no prejudice in not making a cake saying "Support Gay Marriage".
The person isn't being served on the basis of their gayness, but rather because of the conflicting message the person making the cake wants no part in.
Gay or straight, the cake would not have been served to anyone. That's the key difference.

Clearly there is a break down in freedom, but it's not the gay person being discriminated against, but the Christian's rights.
It was the same issue with Nazi Germany. The soliders were just doing their job.
US Court basically said "load of bull, there's a higher law that we're all humans are aware to" and then prosecuted many.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Kurieuo » Thu May 28, 2015 3:01 pm

Your books are different. Kind of.

Since you're not active really in the process of supporting whatever it is. Not directly.

If another bookseller didn't want to sell Mein Kampf or the Koran, or a guide on how to make bombs or behead someone quickly, then that should be their decision and right.

Unless what we want at the end of the day is really are Communist run societies where all religion or different thoughts are forbidden for the sake of the Community (or those enforcing their rule).
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby RickD » Thu May 28, 2015 3:51 pm

Storyteller wrote:Yes.

If it was my business to make cakes.

I sell books, I have a copy of the Koran in my shop, along with Mein Kamp.

Its up to my customers to choose what to buy.

And I was thinking you had a backbone. :shakehead:
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 3:08 am

Fair points K.

I hadn`t really considered it as the Christians being discriminated against. I suppose it`s a personal thing. While I personally don`t see a problem with the cake, I can respect why as a Christian, someone may have strong views about things like this.

Rick.... I do have a backbone, which is precisely why I will sell any book, regardless of my view on it. Just because I may disagree with the content doesn`t mean I shouldn`t sell it. My bookshop is not the place to make a stand. It is a business.

While I hope that my beliefs wouldn`t sway my decisions on what to sell, I respect the fact that it is other peoples choice whether to sell something or not.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 4:12 am

Storyteller wrote:Fair points K.

I hadn`t really considered it as the Christians being discriminated against. I suppose it`s a personal thing. While I personally don`t see a problem with the cake, I can respect why as a Christian, someone may have strong views about things like this.

Rick.... I do have a backbone, which is precisely why I will sell any book, regardless of my view on it. Just because I may disagree with the content doesn`t mean I shouldn`t sell it. My bookshop is not the place to make a stand. It is a business.

While I hope that my beliefs wouldn`t sway my decisions on what to sell, I respect the fact that it is other peoples choice whether to sell something or not.

Annette,

Hypothetically,

Would you sell a book by a pedophile that gave instructions on how to lure preteen girls into a van, then gave explicit details of how he raped a dozen young girls? Or would you just leave that up to the book buyer to decide if they want to buy the book?
1 Corinthians 1:9
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Mrs K » Fri May 29, 2015 4:20 am

@Rick - wow, I was going to post almost the same question! :D Just had to log out K and log in as me and then you posted that :)

I was going to say: "Would you draw the line on say book called 'The Joys of Child Molestation'... hypothetically?"

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Kurieuo » Fri May 29, 2015 4:23 am

Omg, I married RickD.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 4:34 am

Rick, Mrs K....

That`s a really tough one.

To be fair, unless I want to be a hypocrite I would have to, wouldn`t I?

I suppose I could argue that I wouldn`t buy that sort of book to sell but I do get donations of books so what if such a book was among those?
I guess I just think that it isn`t down to me to censor the books I sell but if I chose not to buy such a book to sell in the first place, is that not me censoring them?

I have no idea why someone buys a particular book, maybe they would be buying it for research on a paper, maybe for sinister, evil reasons but I don`t know their reasoning. In the instance of me having such a book in my shop, if it was bought, then I guess I would be thinking long and hard as to whether I should be contacting someone.
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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby Kurieuo » Fri May 29, 2015 4:41 am

I can see how one can compartmentalise business.
I'm sure A has a line that she still wouldn't personally cross.

And if we were to take a moral stand on absolutely everything, well we'd have to remove ourselves from the world.
We wouldn't be able to even accept ourselves. God still extends grace and allows us to draw near.

Obviously shouldn't promote what is wrong, but at the same time we shouldn't stifle opportunity.
I'm sure a Muslim visiting the store would more likely go to a Muslim-dedicated store.
But, A could surround any Koran with lots of good Christian books. ;) You know, be a bit strategic.

And plus, having copies on hand means you have backup toilet paper. Just don't burn them!
Especially in the UK which is gradually being taken over I hear? No Christian preaching in Islamic no-go zones.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 4:47 am

Mrs K wrote:@Rick - wow, I was going to post almost the same question! :D Just had to log out K and log in as me and then you posted that :)

I was going to say: "Would you draw the line on say book called 'The Joys of Child Molestation'... hypothetically?"

Mrs K,

Great minds think alike! ;)

I can see you're the smart one in your family. :mrgreen:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

Postby RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 4:48 am

Kurieuo wrote:Omg, I married RickD.

Just as long as everyone knows that you're the effeminate one. 8)

Btw,

I don't even think that's legal in Australia yet. y:-?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony


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