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Discussion for Christian perspectives on ethical issues such as abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and so forth.
Mr.Gay.UK
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Postby Mr.Gay.UK » Sat May 07, 2005 9:42 am

therefor would you agree that God could create the heaviest boulder in his power?

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Postby Dan » Sat May 07, 2005 9:55 am

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:therefor would you agree that God could create the heaviest boulder in his power?


Yes. I see where this is going.

Mr.Gay.UK
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Postby Mr.Gay.UK » Sat May 07, 2005 9:58 am

would that mean that he could create a boulder so heavy that even he wouldnt have to power to life it?

which ever way u answer you are saying that part of your god isnt!

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Postby Dan » Sat May 07, 2005 10:02 am

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:would that mean that he could create a boulder so heavy that even he wouldnt have to power to life it?

which ever way u answer you are saying that part of your god isnt!


Ahhh, a classic strawman employed by the most ignorant atheist.

God and physical exertion are meaningless when put together. God exists OUTSIDE the universe, there is nothing INSIDE the universe that applies to Him. This is a classical example of a strawman.

Let's see what you assume, oh I see, you assume God exists within the bounds of the physical laws, which is incorrect. The Bible says this, the universe cannot contain Him, He exists outside of the universe. Anything inside the universe CANNOT limit Him because He is not subject to it.

God can lift the boulder, he can drive it's atoms to move upwards against gravity through His divine power. He is all powerful because He can institute any quantitative manipulation possible. He cannot cause a quantitative manipulation if it is illogical and absurd. This is like saying "Can God make photons fluornogbop?".

Do I have to explain to you what quantitative and qualitative mean? Or do you have enough neurons in that meaty head of yours to determine what they are?

Anonymous

Postby Anonymous » Sat May 07, 2005 10:05 am

He has not been offensive to you at all, yet you're offending him? That doesn't sound very fair, and it certainly sounds like a sin to me. You shouldnt be calling him stupid, and patronising him, you should rise above it... or atleast thats what the bible says you should do.

And isnt this all a bit off topic? you havent replied to MY last statement about non-sex homosexual relationships

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Postby Dan » Sat May 07, 2005 10:08 am

Cooljohng wrote:He has not been offensive to you at all, yet you're offending him? That doesn't sound very fair, and it certainly sounds like a sin to me. You shouldnt be calling him stupid, and patronising him, you should rise above it... or atleast thats what the bible says you should do.

And isnt this all a bit off topic? you havent replied to MY last statement about non-sex homosexual relationships


I have, in the other thread, go read.

Mr.Gay.UK
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Postby Mr.Gay.UK » Sat May 07, 2005 10:08 am

i am not, and i repeat NOT an atheist, an atheist is an idiot. they are idiots who completely ignore religion and beleive that religion does not exist, they think that it cannot exist. they use arguments like, well i dont beleive in it because i think its stupid. and the reason why i think most atheists are stpuid is becuase non of them have probably ever read any religious scripture or lived in any religion.

so just to clarify i am not an atheist.

personally i beleive that God exists. not to me, but i beleive he exists to you, and to hindu's and islams, etc.

the reason that i do not beleive in a religion (by beleive i mean follow) is becuase i have read the bible and personally it is a great story, but that is all it is. a story.

you feel strong about the bible as your talks with cooljohng have shown me.

let me put this to you.

the psalms of david, are you knowledgable of them?

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Postby AttentionKMartShoppers » Sat May 07, 2005 11:29 am

personally i beleive that God exists. not to me, but i beleive he exists to you, and to hindu's and islams, etc.


Only on the surface do those religions make sense. As Francis Schaeffer notes, Hinduism gives you no foundation for believing in right and wrong. Cruelty and non-cruelty have the same value. And Islam is hijacked Christianity, nothing more. August tossed some stuff on here somewhere about some problems with it. And, if any of the non-Christian gods are correct, then they must be devils. Because they made man in such a horrible state. In Christianity, though, God made everything perfect, and man decided to do the only thing wrong that he could. Nobody will understand me, but oh well.

Also, you can't have your cake and eat it too. God exists, or He does not. If He exists for me, He exists for you, and vice versa, if He doesn't exist to you, same for me. You can't have both, they are mutually exclusive statements, God, or NO God.
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Postby Felgar » Sat May 07, 2005 3:48 pm

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:the reason that i do not beleive in a religion (by beleive i mean follow) is becuase i have read the bible and personally it is a great story, but that is all it is. a story.

Ok then... You've finally answered my question about claiming to be a Christian and ignoring the Bible... I was waiting for that. The simple fact is that you don't believe the Bible and therefore you're not a Christian. Because salvation is contigent upon understanding you own sinnful nature, understanding Jesus' sacrifice, and accepting God's grace and forgiveness. If you don't accept the Bible then you don't understand that you're a sinner (and we see that manifest in your lifestyle), and therefore how can you accept God's forgiveness?

Dan wrote:
Mr.Gay.UK wrote:would that mean that he could create a boulder so heavy that even he wouldnt have to power to life it?

which ever way u answer you are saying that part of your god isnt!


Ahhh, a classic strawman employed by the most ignorant atheist.

LOL.. No doubt Dan.

This argument was dealt with effectively by C.S. Lewis, and Kurieuo has previously quoted him in a thread specifically about this topic.

viewtopic.php?p=1023&highlight=nonsense+exclusive#1023

CS Lewis wrote in his The Problem of Pain:
<blockquote>"It remains true that all things are possible with God: the intrinsic impossibilities are not things but nonentities. It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of His creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because His power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God."</blockquote>
Cooljohng wrote:For crying out loud, why are you so stubborn? What is wrong with sex between two loving partners? Who arent married? or between partners of the same sex? You are saying "Sex is wrong because the bible tells me so" that is not a valid arguement. You may believe that, and other christians might, but what about people who are not christians? That is not a valid reason, and it wont win you an arguements against a non-christian

You asked why WE believe that, and that's one reason why. And since none of us want to see our nation and fellow countrymen given over to depravity we'll fight it according to our convictions. Pretty simple concept really. And you're right, we don't except you to either understand nor be conviced by an argument based upon faith and convictions.

With regards to a non-sexual homosexual relationship, I don't think it exists. Regardless, two men can love each other and if it's a celebate relationship then there's nothing wrong with it. In FACT, they would both be following Jesus' command to love each other as ourselves. But that type of love (really only possible through the mutually love of God) is a brotherly love and is wholly different than the sexual love that's the foundation of heterosexual marriage.

And with respect to people being born homosexuals, maybe they are and maybe they aren't. Again, regardless, it is a sin to act upon that attraction. Adultery is a perfect comparison because nearly all married men will be attracted to other women - does the argument that "God made me attracted to a lot of women therefore I should sleep them" hold? Of course not. Adultery is the acting upon genuine attraction against God's will, in direct contradiction to His Holy Word. And if you don't agree then fine, see my first comment to you. :)

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Postby Kurieuo » Sat May 07, 2005 6:23 pm

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:the reason that i do not beleive in a religion (by beleive i mean follow) is becuase i have read the bible and personally it is a great story, but that is all it is. a story.

Just wondering... what do you accept about Christ (if anything)?

Kurieuo.
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Mr.Gay.UK
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Postby Mr.Gay.UK » Sun May 08, 2005 2:54 am

im sorry i think i have explained myself incorrectly,

i beleive that the bible is true, it is in my opinion, i book full of true events, which have been interpreted as religious.

dont get me wrong i beleive what christ did was a huge sacrifice and i am thankfull that he did such a thing to prove to us what he beleived, but i dont beleive the bible is the word of God. i beleive that it is a book of true events (which may or may not be interpreted as religious experiences, but personally i beleive them to be explained in a more ''scientific'' way, i hate usuing the word scientific but its the best way to describe it)

the main reason i do not beleive the bible as a religious text is because it has so many problems,

viewtopic.php?p=10236#10236

my post here will describe what i mean.

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Postby Kurieuo » Sun May 08, 2005 7:17 pm

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:dont get me wrong i beleive what christ did was a huge sacrifice and i am thankfull that he did such a thing to prove to us what he beleived, but i dont beleive the bible is the word of God.

What do you believe Christ believed? For example, when Christ claimed to be able to forgive sins and forgave sins, to which the Pharisees charged Christ with blasphemy as "only God can forgive sins." ([bible]Mark 2:5-11[/bible]) Or what of Christ teaching that he is the way and the truth and the life. And that noone can come to God except through him? ([bible]John 14:6[/bible])

What is your response to teachings such as these?

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Mr.Gay.UK
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Postby Mr.Gay.UK » Mon May 09, 2005 5:27 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Mr.Gay.UK wrote:dont get me wrong i beleive what christ did was a huge sacrifice and i am thankfull that he did such a thing to prove to us what he beleived, but i dont beleive the bible is the word of God.

What do you believe Christ believed? For example, when Christ claimed to be able to forgive sins and forgave sins, to which the Pharisees charged Christ with blasphemy as "only God can forgive sins." ([bible]Mark 2:5-11[/bible]) Or what of Christ teaching that he is the way and the truth and the life. And that noone can come to God except through him? ([bible]John 14:6[/bible])

What is your response to teachings such as these?

Kurieuo.



well in my persoanal opinion christ was a very good man, but i can forgive sins to and i have done, that doesnt mean i am the son of God

and he taught what he beleived in, it would be just like me going around to everyone saying a new way to live your lifestyle,

it just happend that jesus's way was morally correct

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Postby Mastermind » Mon May 09, 2005 5:51 am

You can forgive sins? Ha ha ha that's rich. Do you even know what sin is?
Are you threatening me Master Skeptic?

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Postby AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon May 09, 2005 1:00 pm

Mr.Gay.UK wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Mr.Gay.UK wrote:dont get me wrong i beleive what christ did was a huge sacrifice and i am thankfull that he did such a thing to prove to us what he beleived, but i dont beleive the bible is the word of God.

What do you believe Christ believed? For example, when Christ claimed to be able to forgive sins and forgave sins, to which the Pharisees charged Christ with blasphemy as "only God can forgive sins." ([bible]Mark 2:5-11[/bible]) Or what of Christ teaching that he is the way and the truth and the life. And that noone can come to God except through him? ([bible]John 14:6[/bible])

What is your response to teachings such as these?

Kurieuo.



well in my persoanal opinion christ was a very good man, but i can forgive sins to and i have done, that doesnt mean i am the son of God

and he taught what he beleived in, it would be just like me going around to everyone saying a new way to live your lifestyle,

it just happend that jesus's way was morally correct


A man does not teach that which is moral while being a raving lunatic. If you say you're God, over and over, you're either God, or you have a bolt loose.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."



He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.

- On Stanley Baldwin



-Winston Churchill



An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.



You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.

-Anonymous


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