Philip wrote:ICE: So where did those kids of yours who died during pregnancy end up? Hell because of the original sin or? If you are going to say heaven because the kids are innocent, what is the use of baptism and removing the original sin, then?
Clearly, there is much that Ice doesn't understand. People end up in hell because they knowingly reject God - and for their OWN unforgiven sins - and NOT for the sins of Adam. Babies in the womb have not yet sinned. What babies and all of us inherit from Adam is a human sin NATURE - the inevitability that they will eventually begin to sin, as do all humans. Baptism removes NO sin.
Well, since I come from a majorly Catholic country, I was taught baptism does exactly that. So, I am asking...
Also, can you please quote me normally? Because I don't get a notification if you do this this way.
Kurieuo wrote:The trickier question is more who they are?
Part of our life here enables us to develop freely into the persons we are. Babies, they haven't had that chance. So then, does God provide them with another opportunity to develop themselves? If so, then it stands to reason they'll be judged according to whoever they become. Perhaps God just accepts them as undeveloped humans and doesn't give them such an opportunity however.
According to whoever they become? This comes from God knowing all possible outcomes of an individual? And will judge according to that? But, that didn't happen... Isn't that kinda weird or unjust?
Kurieuo wrote:Think about when we die, do you think who are or have become in life isn't simply dismissed? We might be different in certain respects, but you'll still be you and I'll still be "me". So then, it is reasonable to assume that a baby will still be their unmaturated "baby self."
Now if you can find Scripture which tells us of such a situation hereafter, then please present it to me. I think you'll find the only clear scenario described within Scripture applies to those who have matured enough to make a decision one way or another. Everything else people say, "oh they go immediately to hell" or "get a free ticket to heaven" is just talking from ignorance really.
As an aside, I had to double-take on your post IceMobster. I like you and all, and know you probably didn't mean to rub in salt, but the smart undertones I'm picking up on I find quite distasteful. If I had a baby die, and you tried being smart about such to try drive whatever point you thought was valid, I wouldn't be so rational in my response as above. You'd see my face snap away from a smile, I'd be so peeved my hands would probably wrap around your neck. Because, we just do not know, that not knowing would, your words are a low blow into a very painful spot. Wrong time and place to try make your point, perhaps I misread your words, but I find a bit of arsiness behind them.
Nah, I didn't mean to be smart or insult anyone.
It's just... I don't see a reason for the baby to die so early. (Physical evil is a b1tch.) And when they are so immature, where do they end up? And if in heaven, how does that look like? Do they stay as a baby, not developing the mind and thoughts as the adults do? Or do they grow up?