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by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:18 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

As I understand it. Yom can literally mean a long, finite period of time. So, with that, how can anyone say that "day" in Genesis absolutely cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour day?
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:05 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Canuckster1127 wrote:Who has mislead people into believing creation was in literal days and within a 6,000 year time frame?
Doesn't oec believe in a literal days translation? I know not 24 hour days, but still a "literal" translation?
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:12 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Ok, I found what I was looking for. In "A Matter of Days" by Ross, on page 104, he talks about how since Satan rebelled before Adam, to hold Adam responsible for all decay and death in the universe would distort the history of sin and God's response to it.
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:06 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

[Ross is perfectly correct in his views on animal suffering and death before the fall. Ham's main "argument" was Why did God call the creation "very good" if there was animal suffering, death etc. This is no kind of argument at all, as "very good" could and probably *does* mean "fit for purpose", "a...
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:57 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

That is a good point about Ham having a predetermined position, and looking for things that line up with that position. Instead of praying, studying, and searching with an openness to the truth. It just seems to me that there is some sort of agenda with Ham. I don't know what it is, but his lack of ...
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:39 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

In fairness, when I googled and searched for a direct quote on this issues, I did find at least once where Ham or an author on Answers in Genesis specifically stated that they did not doubt Ross' salvation. However, there are also multiple cases where there are statements made about Ross or about O...
by RickD
Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:17 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Ham doubted his salvation. I haven't heard this before. Can you share a link? Thx. It's in the link quoted by DannyM. Kinda long, but well worth the time. This is what I was referring to when I said Ham was defensive, and really didn't know what Ross believed about Adam's fall. Ham doubted Ross' sa...
by RickD
Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:14 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

We have to be strong in our faith.. And strong enough to believe in Him whatever he throws at you... ;) Gman, that is my point about Ham and Hovind, especially Hovind. They are so defensive that they don't come across as secure in their faith. If someone is a secure Christian he/she doesn't need to...
by RickD
Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:11 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Yes, Gman, that is exactly what Message I've been getting from those 2 yec's. I would say it's predominant in the YEC camp but not everywhere. I've also lost a few of my Christian buddies when they found I was OEC at my church. Here is another interesting thing. The view that God created a world un...
by RickD
Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:08 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

There is a reason Hovind did jail time. I would not carelessly continue to lump Ham and Hovind together as is being done. Hovind had some good info and points (and bad ones), but he was an arrogant condescending punk, who liked to laugh at his own jokes and not pay his bills. He gave a big black ey...
by RickD
Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:02 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

I see what you're saying about their strong beliefs. I guess they(Hovind and Ham) just don't come across as humble and loving and patient with their views. It seems to me that Hugh Ross tells people the reasons why he believes what he does. Hovind and Ham seem to try to "convince" people and change...
by RickD
Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:52 am
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

I believe Hugh Ross also has stated that he believes in a literal 6 day creation. According to many Hebrew scholars, Yom has multiple literal meanings. Hovind made the call of heretic without knowing what Ross believes. That is what really bothered me. Thank you for your post erawdrah. Do you believ...
by RickD
Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:10 pm
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Well, Henry Morris has made a life out of it, and while I don't see eye to eye with him and Hovind, give them credit for trying to be faithful to what they believe Scripture says, and for not subverting their faith to secularism. I see what you're saying about their strong beliefs. I guess they(Hov...
by RickD
Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:04 pm
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

RickD. I tend to agree with that, but in fairness I don't think all YEC's do that. Those that do that, tend to mistake their interpretation of the creation account with scripture itself. Yes, that's why I said some. Specifically Ken Ham and Kent Hovind. I've heard more from those two than any other...
by RickD
Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:42 pm
Forum: God and Science
Topic: Old Earth Problems?
Replies: 83
Views: 11708

Re: Old Earth Problems?

Canuckster, I like the quote you have from St. Augustine. It seems similar to What Hugh Ross believes is being done by some yec. They(yec) debate with nonbelievers about scientific issues, and drive people away from any belief in God.